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Buffy, Angel and the Possibility of Babies

 
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Kean
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject: Buffy, Angel and the Possibility of Babies Reply with quote

***Disclaimer: This topic could potentially be triggering for people. It will discuss the realities of teen pregnancy, so please bear that in mind before proceeding.***

I was recently sent a link to a B/A fic in which Buffy gets pregnant during IWRY. Now, as I am sure we are all aware, B/A IWRY Baby fics are a dime a dozen. I've read quite a few of them, mostly when I just found fandom. What struck me as I skimmed through the fic was how in literally every B/A miracle baby fic, Buffy and Angel are ecstatic. They immediately move into together and live happily ever after. It's all very mushy and flufftastic.

Now, I like fluff as much as the next person but I have to wonder, where are the fic where Buffy is not ecstatic? Where she is an 18 year old girl, just starting college, already with the most insane pressure imaginable on her, now facing arguably the scariest role of all: mother. Where's the fic where she considers all options? Where is the fic where they fight about it? Where they are worried? Where they have no idea what to do?

Perhaps people don't want to read that but I think it would be very interesting. Personally, I have not experienced a teen pregnancy, but my sister has. So too has pretty much half of my class from secondary school. While I don't have first hand experience, I do have intimate experience of what it means to be a teen raising a child. And it is never what we see in fic.

So, I'm wondering, what does everybody else think? So often I hear the criticism that B/A would have nowhere to go if Angel was human, well straight off the bat there is this very scary possibility ripe for storytelling. How do you think Buffy, Angel and their friends would react if it was done realistically?
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sybil
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are asking some very real and brave quesitons; and I also think the quesitons arise if she chooses NOT to carry a foetus, not only to have to face the problems Robin's mother (Selene?) faced, but in the idea of splitting the slayer line yet again.

HOWEVER, count nine months from IWRY and, "presto" Dawn appears, a magical construct, made of Buffy blood--the body, and, having a soul, Angel's. However, it is very possible that the slayer demon within human Buffy ALSO has it's union in the demon within human Angel's BECAUSE it was under the magic of Moh RA blood--the sun king of Egypt--that "healed" and bound his two natures together; and therefore, we end up with a very human Dawn.

The symbolisms of death are present, as well, e.g. "the spear" t(the phallus, the rod that twirls death about it the 'worm' of the grave/death in transformational healing) that caused the wound in the side of Christ AND shown with Buffy; that is a "death" in the separation of blood and water, separating sand from sea--why Angel was separated from Buffy as she went after the demon to the sea, the cradle of life, the female principle; and the "death of the vampire body is transformed to the "breath of life" that makes a human being now a living soul. So in IWRY, the "sacred marriage" of male/femaleprinciples of each in body/soul are "the magic key" (that transforms both Dawn as "evil, demon energy" and Angel the "corpse" to living flesh, with souls, and living, mortal, human beings.

Obviously with a human being, as was Jesus, the Christ, the point of the transformation was to show the reverse iof flesh transformed to his sacred self in body and spirit as himself as he is: God. Not to mention the conquering of death and mortality, not the gaining of "the sting of the worm and mortality Dawn and Angel obtained through Buffy and "the womb of the world" plus Mohra Blood PUT TOGETHER.

Joss always takes a myth and flips its meaning or gender. It's really frustrating in explaining anything to sound "good" in the Buffyverse, especially since "the sacred marriage" can be visualized AND WAS SHOWN in season 8, in sex, which JOSS decided had to be "stained" with desire and is therefore EEEEEevil. ANY desire is a failure, including Angel's desparate desire for seeking God's forgiveness: the end of desire. (It is a gift, always within). See?

And then there is the r(metaphorical) rape metaphor of every single hero that ever was, actually resulting in kids all over the place. Were they wanted? NOT OFTEN, AND NOT MUCH! HORROR in horrible. The fact is, in the Joss verse, pregnant women are ALL evil or possessed by evil. That Robin had a child demanded she die at the hands of a monster, as her "loyalty" to the slayer code is "divided," and evil never is "divided."
HUGS!
sybil
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Raquin
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right -- the "OMG SQUEE" approach to an IWRY pregnancy isn't a particularly realistic one.

I think that, for Buffy, there would be some ambivalence. On the one hand, she's a college student, just starting out in adult life and doing so with an incredibly big responsibility. On the other hand, I imagine carrying Angel's child would not only feel very special, but might also seem like an opportunity to keep him in her life. Part of her would probably be tempted not to let go of him.

Above all, though, I think she'd be unbelievably scared.

When it comes to what decision she would make, I'm fairly certain that the negative aspects would outweigh the positive for her. Buffy's a smart girl. She wouldn't underestimate motherhood and if you add her Slayer duties to that, I think it's extremely unlikely that she would choose to cling to a pregnancy as some sort of link to Angel at the cost of some of her youth and her slayage. That said, whatever internal conflict she'd have, stirring up the Angel Package just when she'd started to move on, would be really interesting to explore in fic. She might even, however fleetingly, think of a pregnancy as some sort of test on how strong their love really is.

Dammit! Now I want to write this thing.

Moving on.

As for Angel, I think the reaction would be a little similar. He, too, is starting a new chapter in his life, finding his own path and purpose and a baby with Buffy doesn't fit well into the picture. But I think whatever appeal there might be would be bigger for him than for Buffy, seeing as a child is something he's thought he'll never have. It would be not only something to share with the love of his life, but something to connect him more strongly to humanity itself. That's got to have some sort of pull, even if he reasonably knows that it would interfere with his Big Mission and her life.

I think he'd be scared too. I don't think he'd be ready for it.

There could be conflict, because as selfless and reasonable as they were in breaking up, there would also be the parts where they're afraid, confused and don't know what to do and what kind of impact it will have on their relationship. But if he were to talk about the you-should-have-a-normal-life-and-I-shouldn't-get-in-the-way aspect, I think she'd be accepting of that, because she knows that their circumstances haven't changed since they broke up. And she understood then, ultimately.

So, BA angst of Jossgantic proportions would ensue, in my opinion, but I think they grew from the break up and that maturity would probably show in the way they'd handle it.
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racheltng
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will admit that I have a soft spot for "OMG Squee!" B/A babyfic. However, I would love to see the dark version of this scenario. The closest I've seen is Gia's series Buffy's LA Adventure. (http://www.everysixseconds.com/giafic/la.html) There's some brief conflict when Angel learns about the pregnancy, but it's quickly resolved. Also there's Once Upon a Wish by Indie (http://peaches.indiefic.com/WIP/awish.html), which is a Wishverse babyfic, if you can wrap your head around that. Buffy struggles with the pregnancy in this one, though sadly, it's a WIP.

Most fanfic is escapist, so it rarely involves real life scenarios. If Buffy had become pregnant at 18, while a freshman in college, I don't think anyone would have been too happy about it. Joyce in particular would be disappointed, though I think after a short lecture, she would support her daughter. Buffy might want to have children with a human Angel someday but certainly not yet. Remember, they just got back together. They need time to just be a couple and rebuild their relationship.

Xander would be furious with Angel, Willow would be worried but supportive, and Giles would clean his glasses with special fervor. Angel would probably be more worried than happy. Afterall, here he is, human, forced to standby while his now pregnant girlfriend continues to slay on her own. I think he'd be a wreck throughout the pregnancy.

At the risk of sparking a debate, I think Buffy might consider not keeping it. I can see Giles, and possibly Joyce and even Angel, encouraging her to consider the possibility. I could see Buffy going either way. On the one hand, her responsibilities as the Slayer would make her particularly poorly suited to the role of teen mother. On the other hand, it's Angel's baby, so I think she'd have a hard time letting go of it. Either way, it would be a very difficult time for Buffy and Angel's relationship, though I hope they would come out stronger for it.
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sybil
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...but, I think they grew from the break up. RAQUIN


Would you care to elaborate? I think Buffy and Angel showed greater courage, forgiveness, maturity in support of each other and the Scoobies than all this epic brain death, self hate, and down right evil that followed after Angel's soul was restored in season 3. Sorry. I can't even follow that logic.

Maybe "interesting stories" would be a better description?

I think that gay Andrew and his demon partner could be surprise parents; nature is endlessly more creative in reproduction than is usually considered and two "males" is an important "new" look at family. Even in human reproduction, all foetuses begin female. My problem with this set up is that Andrew falls for meglamaniacs. I hope last season of "heroing" will have strengthened his personality.

For the B/A factor, they might make Xander and Dawn parents, as they are being moved into the background--a critical mistake ESPECIALLY with regard to Xander, before the season even begins, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

HUGS!
sybil
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ital_gal
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Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there is this non squee Buffy is pregnant story by IRIS FG -- the scoobies and Joyce basically kick her out (and its cordelia! that helps her out)



http://home.comcast.net/~vagabondsoul/sit.html
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Kean
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ital_gal wrote:
Well, there is this non squee Buffy is pregnant story by IRIS FG -- the scoobies and Joyce basically kick her out (and its cordelia! that helps her out)



http://home.comcast.net/~vagabondsoul/sit.html


Oh, I am so checking this out. Buffy/Cordy friendship is my very favourite BFFs that should have been. Very Happy
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