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Joss' related interview lines , etc ( Loki, MAAN)

 
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Joss' related interview lines , etc ( Loki, MAAN) Reply with quote

New Joss interview - with an interesting bit about Loki.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/12/04/joss-whendon-entertainers-of-the-year/

To be clear: Whedon thinks going totally Loki is a thing to be avoided. “For the most part, I’m psyched. But you have to be careful that self-righteous umbrage doesn’t determine how you act around people, or how you behave artistically,” he says. “You don’t want to be the guy who’s like: ‘OF COURSE I’M RIGHT! I’VE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!” And then suddenly, you’re making your worst stuff, because you’ve lost that checks-and-balances thing you need to manage yourself.”

If you recall his previous quip on Loki/Spike on @0212 Comiccon

"I'd like to play some parts.

Yeah I'd like to be Spike, or as we now call him Loki".

This puts an interesting perspective on Joss' view of these characters.


Last edited by dorotea on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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sybil
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always known that Joss is an angry man. He wouldn’t have chosen the agenda laden horror genre otherwise. His tender weddings of sound, sense and silence made visible, were efforts invaded, trampled and cancelled. His interviews and characters can't hide this anger, for comedy is dependent upon cruelty. Nature herself isn’t, for such declarations of “harsh, cruel and everyday.” Creatures also play, feel good, rest, while self pity isn’t a major plotline and pain is just as real.

HIs characters advance his thinking more than does his experience. He thinks surprise makes life worthy, when it is mystery. His mother is his altar because his life is spent in sadism on the beloved. And I admit my schadenfreude that he cried with IWRY. He deserved it. I have difficulty reading “IWRY,” as much as would a Christian seeing INRI on a crucifix, and have to gird myself to dare the fiction under the banner of it.

These births of “fools” are indeed his babies who have the nation around him, who would forget him for the feast. They are the closest to his gifts, and he would call selfish, for they don't praise him in endless measure. “It's just the next one” Kai, his wife said to him, to handle “success.” A line that may have a calming influence for someone running a puppy mill. I was appalled.

He can offer the “petty justice” for his suffering, but his wrath is actually in the denial of life he actually created, and the "bad news" is carried out by "other actors." (Consider Charisma Carpenter).

His own “denied, aborted love” is a blindness to his own arrogance that requires the fool of the play: King Lear.

I think the one thing very, very few people understand in this dark rage, this "cutting off" anger is what you might call the "sympathy for the devil" trope, which really doesn't begin to touch it.

You, of all people, had to have seen the Russian version (1969) dir Grigori Kozintsev of King Lear. (The best ever recorded truly. A human being to be one should see it. It is so bitter, so unredemptive, so soul killing, that only the positive, even for Shakespeare to never visit such an abyss is to be grateful, to play and see the caprice as design, the good in the nature of forgiveness that ever could be answer--why I trust Buffy. Angel indeed fights for fallen gods because their cause is just in the dying of the light in this time, this moment, this act and, thus, is the light. The gift given is in the living. Now.

This suffering, of Lear, of even Joss, this is who Angelus is: the arrogance, the panic of the (small) empowered and need for citadels and fortresses, (the escape to the brothel and praise, the bottom of the mine in fear of the nation itself) the need for the mirror in the masterpiece of suffering (Dru); the suffering, the suffering, the physical torture of forever, and spiritual death of the soul (of even the nation having brought its own destruction,) to meet the shock of light upon the eye after being imprisoned in a gulag of suffering (Buffy).

Chaos is not evil; it is merely potential. Cause and effect are a dualistic POV told in a network of time. Process is the shock of self, moving in the now, while transition is the horror and shock of self in forever; but the consequence of life/death/love (nature) in good and evil is told strictly in suffering. This is where all myths are told, this is where "who am I" is revealed. Obviously, I don’t agree with Shakespeare or Joss and I am glad that the divine (spirit) is now seen in the body of the woman and her hand in the world, rather than secluded anger (Jesus in Gethsemane) and Freud.

Obviously, I loathe the Spuffy and what was done to both of these characters to tell the story of the virgin whore. And these comics finally are setting the record straight and people think its about some love affair? Jeezus. We did the whore virgin in Angel. The opposite is not the virgin whore in Spike, but in Buffy-Willow for love and love and love made manifest in all the triggered potential of the potentials.

However, the process, Buffy actually failed her own children: the nation; and she runs in triumph to some road (of more schooling) of promise? No…Lenin to Stalin. I don’t understand Joss Whedon, really; but in the moments of clarity/objectivity “I want to watch. They all die eventually” I see a. he is glad he is not one of the masses, really;b. he sees death is God,; (and the big tabu to mention in America) and he does know the “rest of it,” that structurally must follow, but cowardice (peace is death) is always the distraction: the creator of Illyria, the surprise and NOT the mystery, as cynical hope—the land for the telling of the Tempest) c. he works with structure, but dances very quickly..Obviously, Buffy and Angel are sacred players, so altared, and a very ordinary boy and girl, so altered, I probably wouldn’t count them as my friends.

My failings are probably Willow. She wants to help, but it is her ego that “takes their permission,” instead of simply “be there,” or “ask them.” I see I am so busy doing, I can’t bear to be so humble as to hand my power to the dying, who need it, just to find a place to stand in this world, slipping and capricious in a breath. The suffering! The Suffering! B/A is my answer for they are life. They are death. They are love. They, as these, are inseparable. But human beings can break the curse, always told in its making.. This is what I know. Of Joss. The evil brat. That is all.


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sybil
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another Joss' interview link (originally from whedonesque) that I found relative and amusing.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/arts-ents/film/too-much-of-a-good-thing.20203483

To quote the part that I found interesting :

Shakespeare's romantic comedy could, given its verbal battle of the sexes between Beatrice and Benedick, be the ur-text for Hollywood screwball comedy (in some parallel universe Cary Grant and Barbara Stanwyck will surely have filmed a version), but Whedon decided to film it because of the darkness he saw at its heart


"When I looked at it really thinking 'OK, if I was going to film this, what would I want to say?', I [realised] everything that's happening in this is a lie. Everything is manipulation. Everything good and everything bad happens for the exact same reason – because some people got together and decided to tweak some other people."

Whedon believes that at the core of Much Ado is the idea that romantic love – the love that songs and films and plays regularly promote, the love of Much Ado's younger lovers Claudio and Hero – is actually a construct. More than that, real love, the play suggests, is something else. "The only way to real mature love is to get past the tropes of what we consider romance," Whedon suggests. "That to me was something very dark but kind of beautiful, and once I understood the darkness of the thing, and once I understood that Claudio and Hero's story is a real parallel to Beatrice and Benedick and they're not just filler, then I started to get more and more interested in it. And everything started to fall into place."

There's a challenge, though, that faces everyone who opts to adapt Shakespeare. How do you visualise a writer whose art is in the language? "The language is music. It's where the heart of the thing is, and knowing that I did have a very limited span in which to shoot it, I didn't spend an enormous amount of time trying to gild that lily. I just said 'here's the text and there's also a couple of musical numbers, but they're also in the text so don't blame me'. You just try to arrange the right place and the right energy to let the words happen and get out of the way."

Clearly Much Ado is a departure for Whedon, but there are still some clear links between what is in effect a zero-budget literary adaptation and Whedon's more typical high-concept, high-budget entertainments. There is his love of ensembles for a start (Whedon clearly adores actors). And then there's his fascination with gender issues. "It's always been an obsession of mine," he admits. Not much of a revelation given his interest in giving us female heroines.

The key deception in Much Ado sees Claudio led to believe that his betrothed Hero may have betrayed him. "Some people have given the text flak because they're like 'well, the whole text rests on whether Hero is a virgin'. And I'm like 'no, it doesn't. The whole thing rests on whether she's cheating on her fiance. The whole thing rests on whether he's being made a fool and she's having sex with someone else the night before her wedding. That's just about betrayal and heartbreak. It's not about whether she's, as the Victorians might say, intact. I find it strange when people can't get past the things that are clearly of another era to the reason why we are still putting on his plays."


You know , in the past whenever anything about MAAN would show up on Whedonesque - there is no way a dozen or so Spuffy/Spike fans would not post their excited opinion. With this interview so far there have been zero excitement ( over Beatrice and Benedict being Joss' perfect 'spuffy' couple parallel.) I think I can deduct why. Whereas I find Joss idea of romantic love needing the dark side to mature problematic - I cannot but wonder how much of his obsession with betrayal and love affected the comics - both s8 and S9... and how much of a payoff we are going to see for B/A, if any.
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was looking for Joss' comic-related interviews over the past few years - and ran into this one circa 2008. Was genuinely surprised I never saw it before.

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/07/26/sdcc-interview-joss-whedon-on-shepherds-tale-buffy-season-eight-and-angel-after-the-fall/

Whedon's comment on Angel was sweet enough to grand being quoted.

Quote:
CMIX: As the creator of the Angel character, how do you feel about him becoming a human in the IDW Angel: After the Fall comic series, and having the Shanshu prophecy signed away?

JW: When [series writer Brian Lynch] pitched that idea, it was always like, "He’s still Angel. He still has the accumulated experience. He’s still going to be out there fighting the fight."

He’s not one of those vampires who enjoys his immortality so much that he cares to protect it. He’ll lay his life down whether or not he has one.



and in the same interview earlier:
Quote:

CMIX: After Buffy slept with another slayer [in Season Eight] who had feelings for her despite knowing she couldnt’ return those feelings, some fans have commented this seems strange because Buffy has had so many bad experiences with being used or using someone for sex (such as Spike). What do you say to that?

JW: It’s something she’s suffered from for a long time. Being a slayer and having sort of a bad run of it, she’s the sort of person who has trouble connecting with people. [Her encounter with the slayer] wasn’t abusive and twisted the way the Spike thing was, and actually it was quite sweet — but ever since Angel turned on her, she’s never really been the same.

But it isn’t just that. It’s also who she is, her relationship with her father and the fact of finding out she was a slayer when she was 15. She just feels a separateness from the people around her that she hasn’t been able to overcome.


Last edited by dorotea on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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babytess6693
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dorotea wrote:
Was looking for Joss' comic-related interviews over the past few years - and ran into this one circa 2008. Was genuinely surprised I never saw it before.

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/07/26/sdcc-interview-joss-whedon-on-shepherds-tale-buffy-season-eight-and-angel-after-the-fall/

Whedon's comment on Angel was sweet enough to grand being quoted.

Quote:
CMIX: As the creator of the Angel character, how do you feel about him becoming a human in the IDW Angel: After the Fall comic series, and having the Shanshu prophecy signed away?

JW: When [series writer Brian Lynch] pitched that idea, it was always like, "He?s still Angel. He still has the accumulated experience. He?s still going to be out there fighting the fight."

He?s not one of those vampires who enjoys his immortality so much that he cares to protect it. He?ll lay his life down whether or not he has one.



and in the same interview earlier:
Quote:

CMIX: After Buffy slept with another slayer [in Season Eight] who had feelings for her despite knowing she couldnt? return those feelings, some fans have commented this seems strange because Buffy has had so many bad experiences with being used or using someone for sex (such as Spike). What do you say to that?

JW: It?s something she?s suffered from for a long time. Being a slayer and having sort of a bad run of it, she?s the sort of person who has trouble connecting with people. [Her encounter with the slayer] wasn?t abusive and twisted the way the Spike thing was, and actually it was quite sweet ? but ever since Angel turned on her, she?s never really been the same.

But it isn?t just that. It?s also who she is, her relationship with her father and the fact of finding out she was a slayer when she was 15. She just feels a separateness from the people around her that she hasn?t been able to overcome.



I never did read after the fall....for obvious reasons.

But it sounds like joss is saying that Angel became human AGAIN and gave it up AGAIN.

What's he talking about?
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

babytess6693 wrote:

I never did read after the fall....for obvious reasons.

But it sounds like joss is saying that Angel became human AGAIN and gave it up AGAIN.

What's he talking about?


If you do not read the comics you probably want to be careful about spoilers related to them. Sorry - I am going to hide that quote by making the font white - you can read at your discretion by highlighting. Should have thought about not posting this in this section without spoiler warnings.

In the nutshell though - in the AtF comics the whole city of LA is being pulled into Hell dimension with its entire human population. And at the same time, to make his fight more difficult, Angel is being turned human again by W&H. He does not give up his humanity really - this time he gets himself killed deliberately - so the W&H is forced to revert timelines and LA is never gets pulled into Hell, and everybody stays unharmed. Angel though turns back to the way he was in NFA.
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babytess6693
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dorotea wrote:
babytess6693 wrote:

I never did read after the fall....for obvious reasons.

But it sounds like joss is saying that Angel became human AGAIN and gave it up AGAIN.

What's he talking about?


If you do not read the comics you probably want to be careful about spoilers related to them. Sorry - I am going to hide that quote by making the font white - you can read at your discretion by highlighting. Should have thought about not posting this in this section without spoiler warnings.

In the nutshell though - in the AtF comics the whole city of LA is being pulled into Hell dimension with its entire human population. And at the same time, to make his fight more difficult, Angel is being turned human again by W&H. He does not give up his humanity really - this time he gets himself killed deliberately - so the W&H is forced to revert timelines and LA is never gets pulled into Hell, and everybody stays unharmed. Angel though turns back to the way he was in NFA.



Thanks Dorothea for clearing that up.

I always figured that wesley didnt properly file that paperwork or a mysterious clerical error led to it being thrown in the trash.

Angel gets one of the few things that he's always wanted and he gives it up cause it's the right thing to do, Why am I not surprised?

He's smart, sweet and incredibly selfless. :)


Well at least there's fanfic.

That's the only way I'm gonna get a bangel baby or a bangel

Wedding.Wink
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harry045
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nature herself isn’t, for such declarations of “harsh, cruel and everyday.” Creatures also play, feel good, rest, while self pity isn’t a major plotline and pain is just as real.

HIs characters advance his thinking more than does his experience. He thinks surprise makes life worthy, when it is mystery. His mother is his altar because his life is spent in sadism on the beloved. And I admit my schadenfreude that he cried with IWRY. He deserved it. I have difficulty reading “IWRY,” as much as would a Christian seeing INRI on a crucifix, and have to gird myself to dare the fiction under the banner of it.

These births of “fools” are indeed his babies who have the nation around him, who would forget him for the feast. They are the closest to his gifts, and he would call selfish, for they don't praise him in endless measure. “It's just the next one” Kai, his wife said to him, to handle “success.” A line that may have a calming influence for someone running a puppy mill. I was appalled.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t want to be the guy who’s like: ‘OF COURSE I’M RIGHT! I’VE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!” And then suddenly, you’re making your worst stuff, because you’ve lost that checks-and-balances thing you need to manage yourself.”

If you recall his previous quip on Loki/Spike on @0212 Comiccon
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw Agents of SHIELD pilot. Agent Coulson called Loki the Asgardian Mussolini . Mr. Green


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sybil
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to explain something about ATF. Brian Lynch did a beautiful job in that Angel sacrificed himself as a human being, and his deepest dream of being human over and over and over, saving every single being, good and evil, in Hell A—he didn’t give himself the arrogance of judgment of season 8 of saving only the “good people”—and how good is good enough; which also means he would never have had a chance to ever BE a truly good person, until he met Buffy, as was used in the barfworthy handling of Twilight, the twilight universe, the meaning of becoming god, as used “at the last minute” in season 8 to avoid either character actually “opening their eyes to a new sense of self. We are back to magic and pathetic Buffy. And you also aren’t broke. (or broken).

BTW, Joss hated Brian’s “happy ending” in the tearful embrace of Connor—which is the correct ending for Angel—and that is why—if he can’t die with Buffy, as was “promised” in season 8—the world “dies” as you once knew to become an adult, afterall, which “fits” Joss’s metaphor that only people “die/change” because they became adults. WE instead are back to a false Dawn, * literally, * and a totally lame version of “things are worse” in full cartoon “explanation.” I don’t have any idea what I am investing in anymore.

HUGS!
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