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janas
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 455
Location: Italia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi sybil, might interest you this essay
Power and Control in Smashed
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sybil
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I say, this description has taking a giant, grand canyon flying leap over the reality of what and who Spike is. LOVING?? Not to mention, suddenly he just wants to “get off” because it is the sex he knew as violent with Dru (EVIL—her supposed love bites stole his soul, killed him dead, infiltrated him with a monster and with all his supposed raping, he is “magically” innocent when dealing sexually with Buffy, especially in power dynamics? That works only because Buffy is a complete “non existent” persona any of us recognize.

Because she had just left Angel, the love of her life, this moment reflects her total despair, but, again, WHERE DOES ALL THIS SELF HATE COME FROM? WHO DID SHE FAIL? It isn’t Angel—she isn’t cursed. Further, Spike has never been her lover, as was Darla who actually SIRED him, and made a bond that cannot ever be overcome as long as he is a vampire. Period.

It isn’t in her friendships—they went to a lot of trouble to bring her back and thought the world would become “normal” again with her in it. THE WORLD failed her? So…she hates herself WHY? I can’t get past this issue.

This talk of ‘loving” with a ROBOT—which is the numb place Buffy actually seeks to ESCAPE pain. NOT be herself or IN herself. Recall she told Angel she was pleasantly numb from very heavilty engaging in mutual pleasure until their bodies thrummed with release, relief, satisfaction, comfort, security, joy—need I go on? She had totally expressed herself and was also happy IN herself, in her mind and body and spirit.

With Spike, she felt worse than scummed dirt. She was ashamed of her very existence as a slayer, a human being, and woman.

And the power dynamic swinging back? THAT in a nutshell, is exactly what went the hell wrong with BTVS season 7. SHE NEVER TOOK HER POWER BACK. This is not something that can be just “assumed” happened off screen.

That she infused the womb of Willow was ‘sharing her power’ to trigger all the potential of (her psychological skilled avatar selves) slayers, does not say anything about Spike to me. The only clarity that came to me was she absolutely couldn’t be DIRECTLY responsible for killing Angel again. Her instinct she needed Spike is OH, HOLY HELL NO! simply because that continues HIS redemption story. Further, the I LOVE YOU was supposed to be cathartic pity and her greatest gift of all, MERCY. Maybe that was her moment in her own mind. AND it was the moment that Spike did nothing. He simply stood and let her go off, dancing over the skulls, as does the “mother Kali” of myth.

I see zero that she actually had anything worked out that was shoe horned onto her. And magic spells? Just Kill Me Now.

There are so many flying leaps in this thing, I really drag you through the mess. But a really good show of people trying to explain the inexplicable. THANKS! HUGS and KISSES to YOU!


sybil

p.s. I laugh that Angel courting Buffy was really this older guy who acted the part (like Parker) to get into her pants. He got off on pure women. But Spike who is so terribly violated, is showing respect, and loving care--none of it is evil when a fan feels all squishy that Spike is always and only really and truly doing anything and everything he thinks Buffy will accept as sufficient to "win" over Angel and to "win" as a sufficient "person".

Chipping is a brake, not a conscience or soul.

The only reason Spike didn't disappear with Dru is because ATS was started. And they needed a 'popular' vampire in a show with "Vampire" in the title. THEN politics said no mention of Buffy, let alone appearance to separate ATS and then they had to reform Spike suitable enough to kill at the end--Buffy overcoming her own "vampirish demon" aka ...YOU TELL ME? I say anima, but then "integration" and "control" is the goal, not annhiilation of the self.
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elle2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually planned to post next coming weekend due to my personal struggle to manage my time in between my real life Laughing

But I can't help but to share some of my observations.

First of all, I find all posts from sybil, janas & jr24tw sensible. And surprisingly, I found some insights about the show that I haven't thought before. I found some interesting statements coming from you guys, but as much as I want to point out some of my fave issues, currently, I have time constraint. Maybe I'll reserve my opinions next time. Mr. Green

Nonetheless, there's something I'd like to say about the love/hate theme, in connections with B/A and B/S.

We've been familiar of course with the cliche that "The more you hate, the more you love"...I'm afraid this is the mantra of B/S camp! B/S fans believe that Buffy REALLY loves Spike because she hates him so much! Her hate must have come from "something", since hate comes out of pain. And pain comes out of love. That kind of love/hate concept is generally acceptable as most of romantic piece have this love/hate elements...But in reality, does love & hate are ALWAYS mutually inclusive? I think NOT...I mean, both are very POWERFUL emotions. But to say that one feeling can NOT ALWAYS exist without the other to ONE thing, is CRAP...I mean, I hate cockroaches...I'm not an expert in psychology, but if someone would psychoanalyze my "hate" for cockroach as something comes out as "love" for cockroach, that psychologist DO NOT deserve any remuneration !

Same thing with B/S crap..Is the love/hate concept applicable to B/S? Is it because spike loves Buffy but Buffy hates spike? There is much more deeper analysis about love/hate, but I don't think B/S is the right example!

I'm not really an expert in literature, I just love to read books. (Sybil, feel free to correct me if you find some errors)...I think the perfect example of this love/hate concept being Mutually Inclusive is shown in Milton's Paradise Lost...what prompts Satan to rebel against God.

Lucifer was God's most beautiful creature until God loves HIS Son. I believe Lucifer LOVES God so much that he wanted to impress God and be in HIS right hand forever. Lucifer's confidence came to a point of arrogance and conceitedness that he felt God would not create any other being higher than him. God wanted all creatures to bow down to THE SON which Lucifer couldn't accept. Lucifer felt that it's unfair and felt this SON do not deserve an authority equal with God nor his, that's why he revolted...of course, he was banished from heavens. And since then, the bitterness grew, because God created another "lower" being whom HE allowed to live in paradise..Humans..Adam & Eve. While he, was transformed to this creature known as Satan forced to live in "hell"...The lost of paradise is comparable to feeling of "lost love" for Lucifer. He missed God's presence because only there he felt LOVE. But because of PRIDE, he was forever disconnected with God's presence. It's too late for him to comeback and ask forgiveness. God wouldn't allow him to comeback nonetheless... And with his "frustrations" and "regret" that he would never feel this LOVE again, all those negative feelings come as one which is known as "HATE"...

I guess, Satan/God relationship is the best example for on how a feeling "hate" comes out of "love"


Quote:
WHERE DOES ALL THIS SELF HATE COME FROM? WHO DID SHE FAIL?


Sybil, I've been wondering about this too...if Satan's hate comes out of regret that he forever lost God's love...what about Buffy's self-hate? She came back from Paradise..Does paradise connotes "love"...I think it only connotes "peacefulness"..since after all the emotional breakdowns she had pre-Season 6, she deserved to get her "GIFT"..that is death.

When she came back, when did she have this self-hate? Upon realization that she blamed her friends for "taking away" her "gift", but she couldn't or mustn't blame them because she "loves" them or she knew that they did it out of "love" for her?? You see, Buffy's sadness of "losing heaven" is understandable...just as Satan's "regretted but won't admit his fault" on how he lost "heaven"...but unlike Satan, ALL is not LOST to Buffy...Satan LOST ALL!!! That's why he is in HELL.... But Buffy? No, she still has her friends, and her sister for heaven sake!!!

Ok...if pride prevents Buffy on opening up with her family, is this enough reason to manifest her hate towards herself?...By how? She couldn't commit suicide because she said she didn't want to die, right? So what, she just lost her feelings? But when she lost her ability to feel happy, she turned to this maniac, whom she said, represented everything she hates and what "HAVE HAPPY FEELINGS"???? Crap!!!

This where BTVS's writers unable to convince me that S6 was a BELIEVABLE & ACCEPTABLE storyline for Buffy, as the lead character...because...if Buffy's sadness/loneliness turned out as "hate" for having the "lost of being in heaven"...then, why she did not look for that someone who made her feel in heaven??...Do I need to mention his name? ...yeah, it's ANGEL!!!

jr24tw, you are right. The writers inserted that "secret meeting" to make us hope that B/A is still possible to happen, only to disappoint us, because, the real meaning of that "secret meeting", was to tell the B/A community, that "We have this internal problems with our shows being shown separately in two rival networks and that YOU WILL NEVER KNOW what we arranged for Buffy & Angel, and we WILL MAKE SURE you WILL NEVER KNOW...so what you about to see in the succeeding episodes is THE ONLY THINGS you HAVE TO ACCEPT...or else, give up watching"...

The "we will never know" what happened to B/A meeting is echoed by Cordelia after Angel said he refused to talk about it...Sadly, those writers didn't warn us enough that the succeeding episodes would be "horrible", well that is for BTVS only...Ats, on the other hand, had some good storylines and I found it sensible and believable compared to BTVS...Minear and Greenwalt tandem is so much better than Noxon/Espenson, IMO...

The only plausible context on that "secret meeting" on why Angel wasn't able to help Buffy was it was Buffy's choice to reject Angel...Why??Angel loves her so much that he would do anything he could to help her. Remember "Forever"..(Which by the way, written by Noxon)...Angel said he could stay in town as long as she wanted? And she said "how about Forever"..but then she suddenly realized the impossibility of it. She didn't even want to look "needy" in front of him, yet she couldn't deny she needed him there...Imagine, that conversation wasn't even a year ago to the day they had the "secret meeting"...and all of sudden, they couldn't even talk anymore? CRAP...

I guess, in short, I could safely conclude that the "horribleness' of S6 and crappiness of S7 were mainly attributable to the network split and the inability of Noxon/Espenson to write better scripts for Buffy...In fact, I don't think the show was about Buffy in those seasons, anymore. Spike took over that show. And Joss allowed it...

Sorry bonnaleah. I failed to mention it before, but I appreciate the way you defend Joss. But I have my own solid basis on why that guy don't deserve the best credit others are giving him...I stand by my conviction that Joss is really a misogynist in feminist clothing. Maybe I would elaborate next time...but for now, I think this enough...
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janas
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Location: Italia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
WHERE DOES ALL THIS SELF HATE COME FROM? WHO DID SHE FAIL?

sybil This is a question legitimate , and my answer is that hatred of herself comes from having yielded to the caresses of that animal. Everything that I have seen, before Smashed, was a Buffy disoriented, with difficulty to reconnect with this life, and her friends were too busy living their personal hells, to understand that she needed to help. Joyce was dead. Giles was in England. Angel farther than ever before. Xander prisoner of a relationship that scared him. Willow stunned herself with magic, and Dawn was too young to understand fully the pain of others. Buffy was totally alone and after Smashed she experienced hell on earth.

Someone recently told me that I, as Bangel, I must have very hated Buffy in the sixth season. What? Not at all, I loved her even more. I empathize with her, totally. I know the pain of Buffy, and I know exactly what she felt and that's why I can never be a Spuffy.

Elle, you've made me want to read again Milton's Paradise Lost Smile
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elle2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you've made me want to read again Milton's Paradise Lost

Good...I've been planning to read it again, hopefully, next month when I could devote much time to do it Very Happy

I'm still in the middle of working things out on my job, but, I don't know what is about Buffy/Angel that makes me forget about my work just to join what for me is a meaningful discussion about these characters?...yeah, I'm obsessed...but, I don't hate myself for it. In fact, I'm proud that I've gotten to know these fictional characters. I always tell that to the people closest to me that it's my leverage over them that I know of B/A love story, even if they don't have any idea what the heck I'm talking about Laughing

Anyway, janas, I just stop by to reply on this:
Quote:
that hatred of herself comes from having yielded to the caresses of that animal


This was my initial observation too, until, the recent comic storyline came and made everything senseless...remember?

Quote:
Buffy: I couldn't be mad at my friends. They brought me back cause they loved me. So I just hated myself. And did whatever I could to punish myself. To sink as low as I could.


I don't know, but my logic dictates, the way these comic writers voiced out Buffy, means that this "self-hate" precedes before she engaged S&M with that maniac! The self-hate grew as she continued such act.

Before these senseless comic arc came, I joined with the thought that Buffy was not held accountable on the A/R...It was depression that led her to sleep with the enemy...then enters the "self-hate"...then thanks for Riley Finn, or else she would still continue hating herself.

Even if it didn't make sense to me why these writers needed to prolong the "self-hate" actions by Buffy's sexual addiction..in my mind, she was still the victim on this B/S crap because her mind was still weak to gain control of her body...Her situation was no different with Angel sleeping with Darla...But Thank God, Minear made a good comeback for Angel! Angel had a MAJOR DECISION to push away Darla and asked FORGIVENESS to his crew whom he pushed away during his Darla's obsession. Maybe the Angel Gang was more matured with the Scooby Gang the way in handling responsibility, but they were the same with the treatment to Buffy/Angel when it comes to "obsession" era of those characters....Another same circumstance of B/S crap in the verse, was Wesley/Lilah...

But unlike B/S, Wesley and Lilah was presented in logical and understable way, IMO. See, Wesley gave in to Lilah's innuendos because, he DIDN'T have anyone to go to. His friends CLEARLY gave up on him..but unlike the Scoobies kicking Buffy out of her house, Angel's gang had VALID reasons to leave him for awhile. We know that Gunn & Fred didn't give up on him..as a matter of fact, they still want to save him to have a chance in explaining his action to Angel...It was just an unfortunate scenario, because Angel wasn't ready to forgive him, which still makes sense because, how could you forgive a trusted friend who didn't trust you then took away your son? The rest of Angel Gang, just had left with two choices: they stay together with Angel w/out Wesley or they stay together with Wesley but Angel would kill him??? Of course, they had to abandon wesley. Then Lilah came...

But unlike Buffy, Wesley retained his old self. He still showed concern to his former gang. Particularly when Angel was under the ocean. He might be sleeping with the enemy...but he made it work two-ways...to release his sexual frustrations and to gain knowledge on W&H plans. The victim here was clearly Lilah, because Wesley slept with her only to his own benefit. In comparison of Lilah to spike, she only developed this "special feelings" toward Wesley GRADUALLY as she slept with him...Spike, as the B/S camp said, had "loved" Buffy before Season 6, which happened EVENTUALLY right after "that" Willow's spell...

In the end of Wesley/Lilah affair, Lilah somehow redeemed herself first by "circumstance" when things got messed up by The Beast. Unlike spike, Lilah didn't force herself back to Wesley. Ats writers still gave that bitc* some integrity...which I like, because even though she was portrayed as villain, she was the victim of Wesley/Lilah.

Now, let's go back with Buffy's sexual affair with Spike. Reading to that one-liner of Buffy in the comics..I came to conclude that Buffy REALLY KNEW and AWARE on what she was doing with spike. I agree with some point of view, that the writers wanted to present Buffy's numbness like a "ROBOT" who didn't care if what she's doing is right & wrong. And yet, she admitted to Tara that she KNEW she was just using the maniac....Again, with the comics, the writers just emphasized this that Buffy knew it was wrong...I agree with Bonnaleah, that while Buffy knew it was wrong, her mental state must be weak to tell her body that it was wrong...and the self-awareness happened when Riley Finn told her...

I agree...but the senseless thing that I wanted to bring out is a clear logic why Buffy must go through such things? The writers couldn't just write a character as a sexual addict without a SOLID basis why she became such. Especially with someone as GREAT as Buffy!

If the writers clearly defined Buffy's sexual addiction by this formula:

Quote:
Depression + No Help from friends, family & other loved ones = Self Destruction thru Addiction


then it is sensible and acceptable. Because it's not Buffy's fault why she felt sad. Feeling of self-destruction is a slow death. Buffy doen't want to die, yet she didn't know how to live her life anymore, because she lost everything she thought was living for.. But compared that to this:

Quote:
Sadness of no one to trust + hating oneself = Self Destruction thru Addiction


then, it didn't make any sense. Why? It's her choice not to trust someone. It's her choice to hate herself. So, any wonder why she felt destructed?

I mean...I know that there's no need to cry over spoiled milk. Everything already happened, whether we liked or not. Season 6 & 7 are canon. Regardless if I have issues with it or not. It's a matter of personal preference in which of Buffy's and Angel's lives are sensible, acceptable and worth watching for.

And then this comic storyline...First of all, I'd like to mention gratefulness to Comic Fan for his efforts to give us some update...

It's just that the comic storyline are full of ridiculousness. They gave us B/A reunion on S8...gave us an unbelievable B/A space sex...gave us a confirmation of B/A love on Buffy's speech about Angel having Buffy's heart...only to give us a "symbolic" action that Angel may be all through out Season 8 but in the finale, he would get thrown out with the help of spike with his bugs????

I agree with jr24tw....how the writers would want a B/A fan like me to think that they want Angel to be part of Buffy's love life with something like that?

I could accept that lack of B/A interaction in later seasons of BTVS/Ats due to constraints of real world such as actors' lives and network's political issues...but what kind of excuse these comic writers have nowadays, when those kind of constraints are already gone???

Those are somethings that still don't make sense...aside from others.
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janas
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Buffy: I couldn't be mad at my friends. They brought me back cause they loved me. So I just hated myself. And did whatever I could to punish myself. To sink as low as I could.


Buffy didn't want to take away from her friends the illusion that they had done the right thing (save her from hell) so she hated herself (not being able to hate her friends). In fact, Gage is not saying anything new. Buffy says the same thing to Holden in Conversations With Dead People.
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sybil
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffy hates herself because she is "too weak" to hurt her friends, who a. realize Angel was in hell and he was innocent, so they figured "natural causes" is the only way for "boogity" people to go to heaven? OR. she is hating herself because she wishes she was dead--especially believing she made "no difference" in the "hell" she came back to find--which makes no sense BECAUSE it went to hell when she wasn't around to stop it.

When her friends act as if she is back and she can "take over" again with the slaying THAT might be a great source of "hating THEM" on top of them taking her out of heaven. But her fear mixed with anger is "magically" turned in on herself? No one is explaining this self hate scenario. If she geels GUILTY that she actually hates these people. THAT can be turned into depression. She has an unrealistic view of her own worth and contributions and she is also not giving her friends the right to be informed, but she is "secretly" resenting and "hating" them without telling them WHY. Not to mention. I do agree they should have guessed her life was Leading AND facing down stuff they didn't have to.

Like I said, I'm no genius here, but no one is drawing me a map from point a to c here. SAY so isn't fact or emotional truth. Not when they have "the truthteller evil vampire" in Holden and it all was on a completely different issue of her own powers and feeling she does fall short on "normal" stuff like "men," or a "career path" that isn't judge, jury and executioner when the evil is now coming at her in HUMAN BEINGS aka the Bringers who are brain-washed and "the people" of Sunnydale are "giving up" on their own home.
HUGS!
sybil
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elle2
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When her friends act as if she is back and she can "take over" again with the slaying THAT might be a great source of "hating THEM" on top of them taking her out of heaven. But her fear mixed with anger is "magically" turned in on herself? No one is explaining this self hate scenario. If she feels GUILTY that she actually hates these people. THAT can be turned into depression. She has an unrealistic view of her own worth and contributions and she is also not giving her friends the right to be informed, but she is "secretly" resenting and "hating" them without telling them WHY.


This is a good observation!

I, myself, have been depressed for so many times. I have also felt "self-hate" a few times...but only when times that I HAD done something I knew wasn't right thing to do and yet I still did it. Hated myself because I wasn't able to prevent myself on doing it. But then, I would get over it. There are so many reasons in life to get over your mistake instead of feeling hate towards yourself. It's ok to feel angry. But it's not healthy to feel angry for the rest of your life, most particularly if you are ANGRY TO YOURSELF. ..

As to "self-hate" because I feel anger towards others particularly those people I used to trust but I couldn't express my anger directly to them, so I hated myself for hating them?...That's something I have yet to experience. Probably one of the reasons why I couldn't comprehend the "self-hate" those writers had been saying. It's not something I haven't been able to relate with.

Anyway, with all these theories of ours, I guess, for me, it all brings down to ONE IMPORTANT QUESTION: WAS BUFFY ACCOUNTABLE WITH THE A/R THAT HAPPENED TO HER?

In my mind, I really want to defend to Buffy on this. More than because of being supportive to the gender...but, because I believe Buffy's greatness as a character was defined by her ability to know and to do what is right, even if it cost her own happiness or her life...Unfortunately, Season 6 ruined that image for me. Season 7 didn't do better. Those seasons are canon, means, in the verse, it ACTUALLY happened...So if were going to analyze her actions during those crappy seasons, it is somehow persuasive to answer that, YES, she may be accountable with the A/R...Not INTENTIONALLY, of course. But to say that she's not responsible for what happened to her is denial of some basic facts.

It pains me to realize this, because, I also feel sympathy towards the character. From previous seasons, all her ANGER came out of PAIN. And we understood those feelings. That's why even if her sarcasm seemed to a point of being bitchy to others (remember Sanctuary? lashing out her new relationship on Angel's face?)...we're still able to understand and forgive her....because we knew, she's in pain.

But in season 6, she came back disoriented. Yet she still managed to rationalize what she had to. She tried to earn money for living, right?. She did look for a paying job. She lacked emotions but she STILL had her ability to think what is right. Then, Angel called her, and there's was a desire for her to see him...because she said "She NEEDS to see him.."... After the meeting, she seemed lost again. We didn't know what happened except that the meeting was "intense". If she said it so herself, then we knew she FELT something INTENSE! That means she's having her emotions back...I'm really hazy to other details in S6 because I haven't seen the full of it, to be honest. So forgive me, if I'm missing out some important details...Feel free to correct me...

Anyway, everything started to get crazy after OMWF. In between the message of "feeling cold" & "walking thru the fire"....I came to realize by now, that it only tells me one thing: Buffy WANTED PASSIONS! That's why that episode ended with a kiss..(.NOT A VERY GOOD KISS, I must say!)

So all the crap that it was "self-hate" that drove Buffy to the arms of a maniac...shall remain CRAP for me. She looked for PASSIONS, in her case, she wanted it SEXUALLY...we only saw the self-hate as she continued such grossly affair...But her body liked it. That we couldn't deny, as viewers. Her biggest mistake was doing it with someone whom SHE knew WAS NOT the right guy!

Then, the A/R happened....but did we get Buffy's point of view about it? NO...Whose point of view did the writers emphasize? It was from THE MANIAC! And so this B/S camp sympathized with the jerk because they knew it was Buffy's fault. They knew she was the one who fed that sexual desire into his system. Now that she said quits, did she expect him to got over her?....Do I agree with the B/S camp sentiments? NO. But do they have a point?....I'm afraid, YES.

It really pains me to say such things, but what can I say, those are canon. If Buffy didn't want it, she could have staked him the moment when they were fighting before that "house was brought down". But no, she WANTED it too. And their sexual affairs didn't end there. It continued upto the point where the MANIAC was led to believe that Buffy enjoyed those sexual stuffs and he HAS A BIG CHANCE to get her...to BE "BENEATH HIM", as he wanted.

Why didn't the writers focus on Buffy's POV?...Well, probably because the writers also believe it's Buffy's fault?!!! I mean, if they want to give some drama to their audience, you have to sympathize with the characters, right? Those writers obviously DID NOT WANT Buffy to project as a victim. It's that MANIAC they wanted to focus the spotlight on.

And the ridiculousness continued when that maniac suddenly looked for a soul. Not to redeem himself. But to give the bitch she deserved!

So another question is, what did the bitch deserve? Imposing her guilt? Guilt that she was the reason why the maniac did what he had to do? ...CRAP!!

I'd still very much like to continue, but I realize, I still have loaded of paperworks to do. I just came here to look for some diversion with all the numbers and figures I have to put on my reports...
...so I'll just take a break for a while. Mr. Green
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janas
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elle, I read the issue #10.9 I wrote something here

grr... argh Evil or Very Mad
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elle2
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh well, what can I say something flattering about the comics now? NONE!

But this one captured my interest:

Quote:
Not even the soul eater wants Spike's soul, because the soul is “gray and compromised”


Is it told by the soul-eater that blondie vamp's soul was "gray & compromised"??? What could it mean? That spikey soul couldn't draw the line between "black" & "white" and any moment it could bend to anything because its soul doesn't have know dignified principle?

[/quote]
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janas
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea What could it mean, but the soul eater feeds only on pure souls (like that of Tara)
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