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Buffy Season 2: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Buffy Season 2: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread Reply with quote

Get ready for Season 2!



CALENDAR
April 25: 2.01 When She Was Bad
May 2: 2.02 Some Assembly Required
May 9: 2.03 School Hard
May 16: 2.04 Inca Mummy Girl
May 23: 2.05 Reptile Boy
May 30: 2.06 Halloween
June 6: 2.07 Lie to Me
June 13: 2.08 The Dark Age
June 20: 2.09/2.10 What's My Line (Parts 1 & 2)
June 27: 2.11 Ted
July 5 (Wed): 2.12 Bad Eggs
July 11: 2.13 Surprise & 2.14 Innocence
July 18: 2.15 Phases
July 25: 2.16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered
Aug. 1: 2.17 Passion
Aug. 8: 2.18 Killed by Death
Aug. 15: 2.19 I Only Have Eyes for You
Aug. 22: 2.20 Go Fish
Aug. 29: 2.21/2.22 Becoming (Parts 1 & 2)

Since this covers four whole months, if stuff comes up and we need to adjust, we will! I'll kick off each week with a brief intro and a few questions for discussion.

Also, if it's too much to commit to the whole season, feel free to jump in for just an episode or a few at any time. We encourage any amount of participation!

PROMO VIDEOS
Season 2 Fan-Made Trailer (really good!)
The WB Promos for Season 2 - 1/2
The WB Promos for Season 2 - 2/2
Extended WB Promo for Season 2 Opener

TRANSCRIPTS AND SCRIPTS
BuffyWorld

REVIEWS AND ANALYSIS
-Noel Murray at the AV Club
-MikeJer at Critically Touched
-Passion of the Nerd video reviews
-Mark Field (aka sophist) at Fragments of My Imagination
-Mark Watches
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x01 "When She Was Bad"
Written by Joss Whedon
Directed by Joss Whedon
Original air date: September 15, 1997



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "Buffy's got a new, not-so-nice attitude; the Anointed One plans to resurrect the Master." 

1. Overall thoughts on the episode? How do you think it compares to other season openers?
2. One of the first lines from Season 2 is a quote from "The Terminator": "In the few hours that we had together, we loved a lifetime's worth." A relatively short and intense relationship with long-lasting consequences, hmm ... B/A foreshadowing? Did anything else stand out to you as foreshadowy?
3. What was the first moment you realized something was really wrong with Buffy?
4. There's a lot of bad Buffy behavior in this episode, but of course the dance scene at the Bronze stands out. What did you think?
5. How did you feel about Cordelia in this episode, especially her advice to Buffy outside the Bronze?
6. This episode puts a lot of emphasis on Xander and Willow and their friendship. How did you feel about Xander's "I'll kill you" to Buffy? What about his treatment of Willow, given her crush?
7. In this episode, Angel has clearly given up on his idea of staying away from Buffy. The change in their relationship this season is signaled by the fact that the first time we see him, he's back in her bedroom. What do you think has changed for him?
8. Buffy seems intent on hurting everyone, including Angel. Thoughts on the B/A interactions?
9. Favorite lines / scenes? Anything you didn't like?
10. Anything stand out on rewatch that you hadn't picked up on before?

As always, feel free to answer all, some or none of the questions!
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since bonnaleah said she'd be late this week, I'm just going to start talking to myself. Smile

1. Overall thoughts on the episode? How do you think it compares to other season openers? I really love this episode. It is my favorite of all the season openers, and I think it does a great job of starting us down the path of the very big changes that are coming. Buffy's post-Prophecy Girl development is just incredibly compelling. I'm so thrilled that we've gotten to Season 2.

2. Did anything else stand out to you as foreshadowy? The interruption of the almost-kiss between Willow and Xander by a vampire was the perfect scene-setter for the themes of this season. Angel being in Buffy's bedroom for his first appearance this season seemed like a very deliberate choice, too.

3. What was the first moment you realized something was really wrong with Buffy? On rewatch, you can tell something is off during the conversation in the cemetery. I'm not sure how much I picked up on that the first time.

4. There's a lot of bad Buffy behavior in this episode, but of course the dance scene at the Bronze stands out. What did you think? I love this scene for its brutal simplicity. Buffy manages to upset Xander, Willow, Angel and even Cordelia in the space of a few minutes, and then just leaves. "Leaves the floor, leaves The Bronze, leaves a wake of unhappiness behind her," as the script puts it. It's obviously terrible behavior but the acting and directing are so brilliant that I wouldn't trade it for anything.

5. How did you feel about Cordelia in this episode, especially her advice to Buffy outside the Bronze? I liked the role-reversal, with Buffy out-Cordelia-ing Cordelia. The alley scene makes it obvious that Cordelia now cares about the Scoobies enough to want to intervene. I also like how she acknowledges to Buffy that she's overstepping her bounds. Her very forthright, "It's long past" (time she started minding her own business, that is) reminds me of the way she responds when Buffy asks for a ride home in "Helpless." I think this is where we start to see that Cordelia could grow into a more Buffy-like person, just as when Buffy regresses, she's a lot like Cordelia.

6. This episode puts a lot of emphasis on Xander and Willow and their friendship. How did you feel about Xander's "I'll kill you" to Buffy? What about his treatment of Willow, given her crush? Oh, Xander. He both gets crushed by Buffy and crushes Willow (again) in this ep. It's painful and relatable. It's also kind of incredible that they all manage to stay friends despite the romantic disappointments.

7. In this episode, Angel has clearly given up on his idea of staying away from Buffy. What do you think has changed for him? I think Angel's experience of going after Buffy with Xander in "Prophecy Girl" convinced him that it wasn't enough to help from behind the scenes and hope for the best. He saw that destiny/prophecy didn't have to play out as expected.

8. Buffy seems intent on hurting everyone, including Angel. Thoughts on the B/A interactions? Angel's "I missed you" gets me every time. She's not acting glad to see him and yet he still says it. I liked the directions in the script.

Quote:
He heads for the window. Stands facing it as Buffy hunkers down in bed, facing away from him.

ANGEL (cont'd)
(quietly)
I missed you.
She can't reply, but the hardness in her face melts away. After a couple of beats she turns, her true emotions about to spill out--

BUFFY
I missed --
But he's gone. She stares at the window, unhappy.


I also liked when Buffy said, "I'm gonna kill them all," since it echoed Angel's line in "Welcome to the Hellmouth." Then, she wanted to be left alone. Now, she knows that's pretty much never going to be possible.

9. Favorite lines / scenes? Anything you didn't like? The music at the end is not great, though the little bit with the Anointed One is perfect. The music that starts during the B/A scene in Buffy's room and continues into the car ride with Joyce is so perfect, though. It's Alison Krauss singing: "It doesn't matter what I want / It doesn't matter what I need / It doesn't matter if I cry / It doesn't matter if I bleed / You've been on a road / Don't know where it goes or where it leads"

That moment in the car with Joyce is one of my favorite parts of the episode. I also love Xander and Willow's bet about Giles consulting his books.

Favorite lines:
"Well, what about the rest of the note? ... The part that says, 'P.S. This is a trap.'?"
"Oh, I'm sorry, was that an offensive term? Should I say 'undead American'?"
"Well, we could grind our enemies into talcum power with a sledgehammer, but, gosh, we did that last night."
"I hate that girl."

10. Anything stand out on rewatch that you hadn't picked up on before? This is a silly thing, but because I like Buffy's pink tank top, I noticed they moved the scene in the car with Joyce after filming. In the script, it comes after Buffy finds the Master's grave empty (she shows up in the student lounge with the pink on), but in the finished ep, they put it in after the B/A scene in Buffy's bedroom. When she gets to school after the car ride, she's wearing a white tank.
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sybil
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop ref. Collin. Aka Barnaby Collins (Dark Shadows) and “mythically” is “baby Angel/us”. It is why Buffy “knows” who he is (and that he is the ‘heir apparent’ to the Master); and why she knows where he belongs, and literally takes him by the hand to the Master. They join hands, people, and Buffy already is “way ahead” of this prince in waiting.

Just as Angel put himself in a cage—and yes “here’s how you cage a wolf” from “Princess Bride” is obvious—and was “destroyed” in allowing Angelus out for the Beast Master to be revealed, we have Spike cage Collin and reveal HE is both a Master also showing evil “Collin’s” destiny—the quotes meaning Angelus’ destiny is for ensouled Angel to actually “become the sun”—not just “son.” That is to say, he was to “ascend” , which is the direction of HELL, (and yes, means ON EARTH) into the sun. THIS is called Sanshu. Which is a “neologism” : sans is French for without and Shu for “shoe” or “without shoes” which means “death.” The “symbol” throughout the narrative for beginnings/endings/death/renewal aka “change”—WHY Buffy is “interesting”—she is a paradox: she always changes.

And notice, that the actual ending proposed for Angel to transfigure or to “become” was actually KEPT in full circle, given to Spike in season 7 “Chosen,” while Buffy achieved “normal.” Aka an adult. (She is not alone, women are powerful and can navigate the “darkness” or “unknown” as “slayers” who are capable in this world, et al).

This is one of my favorite episodes, as “pop references” supported me in the idea of all these layers—and this show was absolutely “different,” not just a morality play on the nine circles of hell aka “complicated relationships.” That began my world of research into myths/symbolism (and finding even one that wasn’t endlessly horrific and tragic—and this one is it: The Odyssey.

The show mostly flips the conventional read, as was Joss’s point for creating Buffy the movie in the first place. And in why Buffy had to knock Angel off his feet, onto his BACK face up to her (not to “fall on his face,” which means something else)—which is an interesting way—VIOLENT change/fall of “being swept off one’s feet” aka “falling in love.” And that is also called “foreshadowing.” (Not to mention “backs” and “hands” became the body parts of “camera” worship, which you all know was why “Chosen” was such a B/A gift: Angel did NOT turn his back on Buffy when he left THIS time. (And you know why I needed to see if season eight would change Buffy from an avatar back into a person who ‘grows up’ (becomes) and Angel shanshues…which will never happen. Comic books ARE hell aka “never change.”

Also, it is Buffy who was to “save them all” who, in season eight, now echoes Angel in “kill them all” and why her invading army of slayers was not welcomed. Sledgehammer regarding Iraq, of course. Angel became the “save them all” guy, but “dubious” means for ends is his downfall. (Angel’s destiny to save souls was via sanctuary: “rest in peace” and there is the “death” metaphor; allowing the “other” to recover and thus, be of mind and body to use “free will” in a balanced fashion, and thereby save his own—and ATS also got turned into a completely different narrative, but that isn’t the subject, as most of this post isn’t. I no longer can see a show “correctly” I guess. And, obviously, I have skipped the very 'life' of the show: the emotional, as I can't not hurt doing it, even if seeing the "flip" and "mirroring" enters the realm of "all about Buffy."

I guess my riotous fangirl only cares for the fulfillment of B/A; and no, I wouldn't want Joss to touch "the marriage"--I prefer Marc Chagall. ha!

HUGS!
sybil
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bonnaleah
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. Overall thoughts on the episode? How do you think it compares to other season openers?


I wasn't really crazy about this episode the first time I watched, but I have grown to appreciate it over time. I think it makes sense that we were shown some fallout from Prophecy Girl instead of just coming back all tra la la as if nothing had changed. Buffy may have faced her fear last season but she's had the entire summer to ponder the fact that she died. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a 16 yr old girl. I think maybe until Prophecy Girl she had just resented not getting to be a normal teenage girl. But suddenly she's been made aware of just how serious this slayer gig is. It's not just about not having enough time to study in order to get good grades, or not having a regular boyfriend, or getting kicked out of school....this slayer thing could get her killed. I'm not sure that had really sunk in before this...but it sure has now and I imagine she has re-lived the events of Prophecy Girl over and over all summer long. Getting out of Sunnydale for the summer should have been a great reprieve for her but we know from Hank's talk with Joyce that Buffy was distant, and as he put it, nowhere to be seen. So I take that to mean that she has been haunted by thoughts of dying at the Masters hand and was probably plauged by some "what if's" too. What if Xander and Angel hadn't got to her in time? She has to also be wondering what else is coming around the bend for her when she returns to Sunnydale. She's probably thinking, "why me? and "what did I do to deserve this? I think it's safe to say that she is mad at the world and I think it's pretty clear from her reaction to seeing the Master's grave that she is sort of terrified by this burden that's been thrust on her.




Quote:
What was the first moment you realized something was really wrong with Buffy?


I think it was when she told Willow to grow up, that everything wasn't about kissing. There were a few other little things before that, that were a tiny bit off, but here Buffy was really off. Always before she was eager to share every little detail about Angel with Willow. But in this scene Buffy was kind of putting Willow down the way Cordelia always did...it just wasn't like Buffy at all.


Quote:
There's a lot of bad Buffy behavior in this episode, but of course the dance scene at the Bronze stands out. What did you think?


I pretty much hated it. I understood that Buffy was having trouble dealing with her crumby circumstances but It didn't justify taking it out on everybody else. The dance scene was extremely uncomfortable to watch and downright mean. Especially to Willow...but also to Xander and Angel.



Quote:
How did you feel about Cordelia in this episode, especially her advice to Buffy outside the Bronze?


I was surprised that Cordy would even care if Buffy lost [as she put it] "her loser friends". I think it was a tiny step forward for her character because otherwise she was the same old Cordelia. Cordy thinks no one has suffered the way she has simply because she had to spend the summer in Tuscany instead of St Croix...

Cordy: "No one has suffered like I have. Of course I think that that kind of adversity builds character. Well, then I thought, I already have a lot of character. Is it possible to have too much character"?

She's a character alright! Also the worse thing about being hung upside down and almost having your throat cut was the rust and blood stains. She just cracks me up.



Quote:
This episode puts a lot of emphasis on Xander and Willow and their friendship. How did you feel about Xander's "I'll kill you" to Buffy?


I hated it. As bratty as Buffy had been acting she still didn't deserve that. I like to think that refusing to let Xander and Willow go with her was partly because she was trying to protect them. She even told them she couldn't be worrying about them and fight too. Plus Buffy isn't a mind reader and didn't know that Willow would be captured. It was unfair of Xander to blame her and unfair to expect that it was Buffy's job to keep all of them safe all the time. Willow, Xander and Giles all thought that the trap was for Buffy. None of the three thought the target was Willow....and yet Xander expected Buffy to have somehow known or anticipated it. I think the scene was the beginning of my love/hate relationship with Xander.


Quote:
What about his treatment of Willow, given her crush?


Oh I think Xander was totally gonna take advantage of Willow's feelings for him if the vampire hadn't shown up. He'd already said he was a man and had certain desires and needs. Interesting that in the shooting script after he says this Willow says she doesn't wanna know...and Xander says, "Don't you"? Kinda glad they took that line out because then he would have really came across as an unfeeling jerk.....but I think he was definitley going to kiss Willow and who knows where it would have went from there. I never liked the way he played with Willow's heart, because he absolutely knew how she felt about him...and then as soon as Buffy was back he just flipped a switch and ended all flirtation with Willow.


Quote:
I think Angel's experience of going after Buffy with Xander in "Prophecy Girl" convinced him that it wasn't enough to help from behind the scenes and hope for the best. He saw that destiny/prophecy didn't have to play out as expected.


Yes, I agree. And playing into this also was when Angel said to Xander, "you love her" and Xander replied, "Don't you"? I give Xander credit for giving Angel something to think about. Here was this 16 yr old boy who was acting on his love for Buffy ...danger be damned.....and Xander was right in the end.

I enjoyed the Snyder/Giles scene a lot. Snyder is rambling on about how worthless teenagers are and how ....

Like locusts. Crawling around, mindlessly bent on feeding and mating. Destroying everything in sight. Somebody's got to keep an eye on them. They're just a bunch of
hormonal time bombs. (takes two steps away from Giles) Every time a pretty girl walks by every boy turns into a gibbering fool.


Just as Jenny walks by and Giles turns all of his attention to her. And then Snyder going on about how he tries to tell them but he might as well be talking to himself.......and then we see that he was since Giles and Jenny have walked away. I love that scene.

and I chuckled at this in spite of myself...

Buffy: Well, that works out great. You won't tell anyone that I'm the Slayer, and I won't tell anyone you're a moron.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sybil, great to have your thoughts!

sybil wrote:
Pop ref. Collin. Aka Barnaby Collins (Dark Shadows) and "mythically" is "baby Angel/us". It is why Buffy "knows" who he is (and that he is the 'heir apparent' to the Master); and why she knows where he belongs, and literally takes him by the hand to the Master. They join hands, people, and Buffy already is "way ahead" of this prince in waiting.

Just as Angel put himself in a cage—and yes "here's how you cage a wolf" from "Princess Bride" is obvious—and was "destroyed" in allowing Angelus out for the Beast Master to be revealed, we have Spike cage Collin and reveal HE is both a Master also showing evil "Collin's" destiny—the quotes meaning Angelus' destiny is for ensouled Angel to actually "become the sun"—not just "son." That is to say, he was to "ascend" , which is the direction of HELL, (and yes, means ON EARTH) into the sun. THIS is called Sanshu. Which is a "neologism" : sans is French for without and Shu for "shoe" or "without shoes" which means "death." The "symbol" throughout the narrative for beginnings/endings/death/renewal aka "change"—WHY Buffy is "interesting"—she is a paradox: she always changes.

And notice, that the actual ending proposed for Angel to transfigure or to "become" was actually KEPT in full circle, given to Spike in season 7 "Chosen," while Buffy achieved "normal." Aka an adult. (She is not alone, women are powerful and can navigate the "darkness" or "unknown" as "slayers" who are capable in this world, et al).


The symbolism of the Anointed One is fascinating. I got the metaphor of stasis / permanent childhood as a counterpoint to Buffy's choice to grow up, but the additional layers of your interpretation re: Angel/us are brilliant.

sybil wrote:
This is one of my favorite episodes, as "pop references" supported me in the idea of all these layers—and this show was absolutely "different," not just a morality play on the nine circles of hell aka "complicated relationships." That began my world of research into myths/symbolism (and finding even one that wasn't endlessly horrific and tragic—and this one is it: The Odyssey.


Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Even if the emotional is too much to tackle, I hope you'll continue to weigh in on the symbolic.

sybil wrote:
I guess my riotous fangirl only cares for the fulfillment of B/A; and no, I wouldn't want Joss to touch "the marriage"--I prefer Marc Chagall. ha!


Very Happy Hey, I remember reading a Chagall-inspired B/A fic! (Maren's La Mariée)

And, bonnaleah, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts as always.

bonnaleah wrote:
As bratty as Buffy had been acting she still didn't deserve that. I like to think that refusing to let Xander and Willow go with her was partly because she was trying to protect them. She even told them she couldn't be worrying about them and fight too. Plus Buffy isn't a mind reader and didn't know that Willow would be captured. It was unfair of Xander to blame her and unfair to expect that it was Buffy's job to keep all of them safe all the time. Willow, Xander and Giles all thought that the trap was for Buffy. None of the three thought the target was Willow....and yet Xander expected Buffy to have somehow known or anticipated it. I think the scene was the beginning of my love/hate relationship with Xander.


Yes, I agree with all of this. His last line before the vampires showed up in the library was "Buffy's about to lose it. I think we should be trying to reach minimum safe distance." So it wasn't like he had any inkling. And Buffy was already trying to figure out how to find Willow and Giles when Xander was interrupting with his threats.

I do understand how the combination of his previous anger toward Buffy and his fear for Willow could make him say something irrational, though, so that helps to keep the love/hate from getting too hatey. Smile
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alilbitgoth
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Overall thoughts on the episode? How do you think it compares to other season openers?

probably the best out of all in my opinion. It's funny how much goes over your head when watching as a pre-teen vs and adult. It shows us that all is not right emotionally with Buffy after the battle with the master.


2. One of the first lines from Season 2 is a quote from "The Terminator": "In the few hours that we had together, we loved a lifetime's worth." A relatively short and intense relationship with long-lasting consequences, hmm ... B/A foreshadowing? [/b[b]]Did anything else stand out to you as foreshadowy?

Xander & willow's almost making out foreshadows S 3 Ep 8 Lovers Walk.


3. What was the first moment you realized something was really wrong with Buffy?


When she looked uncomfortable around Gelis. I didn't understand why she would look that way.THen comes the snapping at Angel. They had left on good terms or so we thought in the last season. Then there is the flirting with Xander.


4. There's a lot of bad Buffy behavior in this episode, but of course the dance scene at the Bronze stands out. What did you think?


I was like she clearly is doing this to make Angel jealous but I didn't understand why at the time. I get it now but it was uncall for.


5. How did you feel about Cordelia in this episode, especially her advice to Buffy outside the Bronze?


It was good advice for Buffy considering her job but not everybody is good at getting over stuff. If that was the case folks would never commit suicide.


6. This episode puts a lot of emphasis on Xander and Willow and their friendship. How did you feel about Xander's "I'll kill you" to Buffy? What about his treatment of Willow, given her crush?


When I think of all of what occurs between them during this season & S3. It became clear to me that xander doesn't know what he wants. He sends willow mixed signals. If he only sees her as a friend, why did her try to kiss her. Once you get put in the friend box, you stay there.


7. In this episode, Angel has clearly given up on his idea of staying away from Buffy. The change in their relationship this season is signaled by the fact that the first time we see him, he's back in her bedroom. What do you think has changed for him?


His feelings for one. When he tells her it seems your upset at me and it bothers me more than I like. I think this was the beginning of the longing. Joss never tells us what changed between them after season 1 before she goes to visit her father for the summer.


8. Buffy seems intent on hurting everyone, including Angel. Thoughts on the B/A interactions?

Buffy always feels like she has to deal with everything on her own. She never really explains her feelings. Being a slayer is hard but she has an support group of people she can talk to. Angel out of all of them is the one who understands her the most. She still didn't trust him until her breakdown.

9. Favorite lines / scenes? Anything you didn't like?

Any scene usually with Bangel I love, even when its angsty. There is so many faves. I loved the Bica quote from xander when willow spells out Bitch. Hilarious!

10. Anything stand out on rewatch that you hadn't picked up on before?

I picked on that Buffy was suffering from PTSD. As a kid watching this, I had no clue why she was pissed or behaving different.


I will say, Passion of the Nerd's analyzes does make me look at the episodes a bit different now.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, alilbitgoth! Thanks for joining in!

alilbitgoth wrote:
I will say, Passion of the Nerd's analyzes does make me look at the episodes a bit different now.


Ian is great. I really like his stuff. I loved this part in the "When She Was Bad" episode guide: "[Buffy] is in each scene choking on her own emotions and can't get out anything in their place. In the episode's most frightening scene, Giles is literally choking her to death."

As a side note, I saw that he's working on the guide for "I Will Remember You" right now and it should be out next weekend.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x02 "Some Assembly Required"
Written by Ty King
Directed by Bruce Seth Green
Original air date: September 22, 1997



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "Someone is building a woman using body parts from different girls — and Cordelia's head is on the wish list."

1. Overall thoughts on this episode? Did anything stand out on rewatch?
2. What did you think of Buffy and Angel's bickering in the teaser?
3. How did you feel about Buffy and Xander dispensing dating advice to Giles, and the Giles/Jenny interactions?
4. What did you think about Xander's "people don't fall in love with what's right in front of them" speech?
5. Other thoughts about the Scoobies in this ep? Or Cordelia?
6. When Buffy says, "I know what it's like to lose someone that you're close to," who do you think she might be talking about?
7. What did you think about Buffy and Angel's scene at the end? 
8. Favorite lines/moments?
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bonnaleah
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alibitgoth! It is so cool that you have joined us. Very Happy




Overall thoughts on this episode? Did anything stand out on rewatch?


When doing a re-watch there are always episodes that I'm not that crazy about re-watching, and Some Assembly required is one of them....But a crazy thing happened this time. I loved it. Sure, the Frankenstein plot was a little far fetched and cheesy, but as usual for the early episodes, the witty banter, and character interactions were so enjoyable. I think I've come to a point that I would enjoy watching this particular group of characters doing anything...or doing nothing...as long as the scooby gang was getting along well with each other, and the witty banter remained. I just love this group of characters so much and I think it's just kinda amazing that here we are, only 14 episodes in, and we already have such great love for these characters that we just enjoy watching them interact.

What did you think of Buffy and Angel's bickering in the teaser?

Angel said everytime we fight you bring up the vampire thing, as if their fighting is a regular thing. Buffy did throw the vampire thing in his face in "WSWB", but other than that I don't remember them ever fighting. So are we to assume there have been other moments of bickering off screen? In any event they didn't seem angry with each other I thought it was kinda cute. I was happy to see Angel in the opening scene. Angel said he heard Buffy was on the hunt. I wonder how he heard. Angel is so bothered by Buffy's sexy dance with Xander that he says "mated with" might describe it better, and though he denies it, he is jealous of Xander. Which makes sense in light of knowing that Xander is in love with Buffy.

I'm so used to seeing Angel as a good fighter that it was weird seeing him knocked down twice by an ordinary vamp.



How did you feel about Buffy and Xander dispensing dating advice to Giles, and the Giles/Jenny interactions?


Giles was so adorable when he was practicing asking Jenny for a date. And Xander was the typical teenager in saying that Jenny was reasonably dollsome for someone in Giles's age bracket. Teenagers think 30 yr olds are old. I thought Xanders teasing of Giles was pretty funny. Asking if it was time for the birds and bee's talk and telling Giles that the whole stork thing was a smoke screen. I guess Buffy and Xander gave Giles some pretty good advice since Jenny ended up asking how he felt about Mexican. Funny to think that if not for the talk with Buffy and Xander, Giles might have replied "Mexicans"?


What did you think about Xander's "people don't fall in love with what's right in front of them" speech?

This was a quote meant to highlight Xander's feelings for Buffy....Willow's feelings for Xander, and Buffy's feelings for Angel...But I think the quote mirror's Joss's feelings about storytelling too. In interviews about his writing he has talked about not giving fans what they want as away to keep them wanting. We may not like it but he is probably right. After all, we are still here wanting what we have been told is unattainable.


Other thoughts about the Scoobies in this ep? Or Cordelia?

So the gang have plans to go to the cemetery and did up graves. Like its no big thing. And Willow is bringing snacks. I love this show so much.

And then Cordelia trying to get some sympathy about Daryl's death causing her so much grief, and Giles giving her two little pats..with a "there, there". Only to find out later that Cordy and Daryl weren't a thing at all, in fact we learn that Daryl had always ignored her.

Angel looks totally uncomfortable with Cordelia clinging to his arm. Buffy seems uncomfortable too since Angel knows she lied and she doesn't seem to like Cordy hanging all over him. I thought Angel was hoping that Buffy would save him from taking Cordelia home, but I think she was so surprised to see them together that she didn't know how to react. I thought Buffy was a little jealous too.

Cordelia: Xander? I just wanted to thank you for saving my life. What you did in there was really brave and heroic, and I just wanted to tell you if there was anything that I could ever do to...

Xander: Do you mind? We're talking here.


This was just priceless and reminded me of the many times Cordelia has said the exact same thing to those who dared to talk to her. Marcie Ross and Willow especially. The thing is I believe Cordelia was being sincere and really meant what she said. And then it was funny that Xander and Willow were still wondering why they never got dates.



When Buffy says, "I know what it's like to lose someone that you're close to," who do you think she might be talking about?

I wondered about that too and the only thing I can come up with is her Dad. Hank isn't dead but death isn't the only way to lose someone....and she has lost him being a part of her daily life.


What did you think about Buffy and Angel's scene at the end?

Even when the episode wasn't one of my favorites I have always absolutely adored the final shot of Buffy and Angel holding hands and walking home. There's just something so beautiful about that image to me. I loved The entire final scene with Angel admitting his jealousy of Xander...and Buffy telling him that she didn't love Xander..and Angel's reasons for being jealous of Xander....


Favorite lines/moments?

Angel: "Yeah, but he's in your life". "He gets to be there when I can't". "Take your classes, eat your meals, hear your jokes and complaints". "He gets to see you in the sunlight".
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Overall thoughts on this episode? Did anything stand out on rewatch?

Gotta go with bonnaleah on this one:

bonnaleah wrote:
I loved it. Sure, the Frankenstein plot was a little far fetched and cheesy, but as usual for the early episodes, the witty banter, and character interactions were so enjoyable. I think I've come to a point that I would enjoy watching this particular group of characters doing anything...or doing nothing...as long as the scooby gang was getting along well with each other, and the witty banter remained.


I loved the focus on the romances in this episode. I love how cute everyone gets to be. I know now, because it's a rewatch, that this is being done on purpose so that our hearts are warmed and it'll hurt more when they are stomped on later, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts. Smile

Also, on rewatch the plot and the character of Daryl kind of reminded me a bit of "Intervention" in Season 5 -- an undead guy who has become an outcast because of forces beyond his control, who is obsessed with a kind of twisted love, wants the object of his affections so desperately that he is willing to have her crafted out of parts. Daryl wanted a Cordelia made out of frankensteined flesh, so that she would be like him and "love" him, just as Spike essentially had Warren create a soulless Buffy to "love" him. And then Daryl chooses to go up in flames rather than betray his "beloved"...

Also, Chris' line about Daryl, "The first time he woke up after... He said I shouldn'ta brought him back. I-I was just... tryin' to look out for him. Like... he woulda done for me," is even sadder on rewatch.


2. What did you think of Buffy and Angel's bickering in the teaser?

bonnaleah wrote:
Angel said everytime we fight you bring up the vampire thing, as if their fighting is a regular thing. Buffy did throw the vampire thing in his face in "WSWB", but other than that I don't remember them ever fighting. So are we to assume there have been other moments of bickering off screen? In any event they didn't seem angry with each other I thought it was kinda cute.


Yeah, pretty adorable. Maybe there has been fighting that we haven't seen, but I think twice might be enough for Angel to get touchy about it. Smile It reminded me of "Sense and Sensitivity" in Season 1 of AtS, when Angel gets oversensitive because of that weird mystical talking stick and says to Cordelia and Doyle, "You both withdraw when I go vamp. I feel you judge me."

bonnaleah wrote:
I'm so used to seeing Angel as a good fighter that it was weird seeing him knocked down twice by an ordinary vamp.


Agreed! I guess he's still in recovery from his alley days, but I also wonder if he's still worried about losing control around Buffy and that affects his fighting. Also, maybe he's still struggling with the idea that he has the power to do good, and until he really accepts that, he's not as much help.

Like Chris' line I mentioned above, another thing that seems even more poignant on rewatch is Buffy and Angel's exchange about rising from the grave.

3. How did you feel about Buffy and Xander dispensing dating advice to Giles, and the Giles/Jenny interactions? Giles is just the cutest. You know, I feel like the Giles/Jenny pairing gets mentioned as an example of a mature adult romance to compare to the high school ones this season, but this episode kinda emphasizes how not-different they are. I mean, Buffy and Xander give reasonably good advice, and yet Giles still can't really articulate how he feels. Xander was braver and more straightforward when asking Buffy out in "Prophecy Girl" (though he had to ruin it by being a jerk when she turned him down).

That being said, I love babbling Giles and wouldn't trade him. I also really liked Jenny's, "Ms. Calendar's my father" line.

4. What did you think about Xander's "people don't fall in love with what's right in front of them" speech?

bonnaleah wrote:
This was a quote meant to highlight Xander's feelings for Buffy....Willow's feelings for Xander, and Buffy's feelings for Angel...But I think the quote mirror's Joss's feelings about storytelling too. In interviews about his writing he has talked about not giving fans what they want as away to keep them wanting. We may not like it but he is probably right. After all, we are still here wanting what we have been told is unattainable.


bonnaleah, that is brilliant ... and kinda painful. Smile

5. Other thoughts about the Scoobies in this ep? Or Cordelia?

bonnaleah wrote:
Cordelia: Xander? I just wanted to thank you for saving my life. What you did in there was really brave and heroic, and I just wanted to tell you if there was anything that I could ever do to...

Xander: Do you mind? We're talking here.


This was just priceless and reminded me of the many times Cordelia has said the exact same thing to those who dared to talk to her. Marcie Ross and Willow especially. The thing is I believe Cordelia was being sincere and really meant what she said. And then it was funny that Xander and Willow were still wondering why they never got dates.


Cordelia does seem to be susceptible to the charms of the guys who rescue her! It happens in AtS with Doyle, too, when he saves her in "The Bachelor Party."

6. When Buffy says, "I know what it's like to lose someone that you're close to," who do you think she might be talking about?

bonnaleah wrote:
I wondered about that too and the only thing I can come up with is her Dad. Hank isn't dead but death isn't the only way to lose someone....and she has lost him being a part of her daily life.


That's what I thought, too. I guess it's possible on rewatch to think that she means her cousin Celia, but there would have been no way to know that yet.

7. What did you think about Buffy and Angel's scene at the end? I like that they are back to acknowledging their feelings for each other, even though they still think that they can't be together (and, sadly, they don't even know the half of it yet!).

After the episode, I kept thinking of Xander's line to Angel in "Prophecy Girl," "Buffy's got this big old yen for you. She thinks you're a real person." Angel is jealous of Xander because he IS a "real person." Angel wants that so badly. In the end, that's why he loses his soul, right? Because Buffy truly does make him feel like a person, not a demon, someone who is worthy, someone who can be forgiven. Sigh.

8. Favorite lines/moments?

"I'm hoping to find a fortune in gold doubloons."

Xander riding Cordelia's gurney to safety.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x03 "School Hard"
Teleplay by David Greenwalt
Story by Joss Whedon and David Greenwalt
Directed by John T. Kretchmer 
Original air date: September 29, 1997



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "Something is rotten in the state of Sunnydale High. If you're Buffy. She's one step from expulsion, her GPA is a disaster and Parent's Night is in a few days time. That's the badness she knows about. The Night of St. Vigeous is approaching, when the power of all vampires will be at its peak. All that, however, is the good news. There's two new faces in town. One of them's under a bleach blond haircut and over a black leather trenchcoat, the other's in front of a criminally insane clairvoyant brain: Spike and Drusilla. Spike decides to crash Parent's Night..."


1. Overall thoughts on this episode? What did you think of the introduction to Spike and Drusilla? 
2. We also learn more about Angel's backstory and see him acting like Angelus for the first time. What did you think of Angel's role in this episode?
3. Thoughts on the B/A flirting?
4. What did you think of Joyce in this episode?
5. How about Buffy and the other Scoobies? Anything stand out?
6. What did you think about the reveal that Snyder knows more than he's letting on about the supernatural?
7. Did you like that Spike killed the Anointed One? What did you think of his line, "From now on, we're gonna have a little less ritual ... and a little more fun around here."
8. Favorite lines/moments?
9. Anything you noticed more on rewatch?

Fic rec: If you want a great bit of backstory on Spike and Dru and the mob in Prague, check out Kairos' The Third Defenestration of Prague.

Also, here's a Dawn AU gifset of her interacting with Angel, set in early Season 2: http://onegirlinalltheworld.tumblr.com/post/75025543598/dawn-au-i-mean-no-offence-but-youre-like-the
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bonnaleah
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall thoughts on this episode? What did you think of the introduction to Spike and Drusilla?

I was fascinated with Drusilla. She had such a fragile look and yet that look in her eyes was so menacing and creepy. I loved her crazy speech patterns and the way Spike seemed to adore her. I think they were a strikingly beautiful couple visually, and they had tons of chemistry, so I was very intrigued by them. I thought Spike was a fun vampire....so very braggy and over the top, and totally different from the other vampires we had seen. I think initially I might have viewed him as a pretty big threat, especially after learning he had already killed 2 slayers, plus the additional information from Angel that Spike was worse than the other creatures Buffy had faced because once he started something he didn't quit until everything in his path was dead. Angel was right in a way since as the season progresses Spike will try many times to kill Buffy...the same way he tried more than once to kill Niki Wood before getting the job done.

Many Spuffy's will point to this episode and claim that this was the beginning of Spuffy and that there was so much sexual tension between Spike and Buffy. All I ever see is a vampire obsessed with killing Slayers, and who is totally devoted to Drusilla. We will learn in "Fool for Love" that Spike has been obsessed with slayers since he learned about them from Angel. Something Spike himself admits...

Spike: After that, I was obsessed. I mean, to most vampires, the Slayer was the subject of cold sweat and frightened whispers. But I never hid. Hell, I sought her out. I mean, if you're looking for fun, there's death, there's glory and sod all else, right? (shrugs) I was young.

He told Niki Wood that he had spent a great deal of time tracking her down and he didn't want the dance to end too soon....and he told Buffy that the best night of his life was the night he killed the Chinese slayer.

So while Spuffy's see sexual undertones when Spike and Buffy throw their weapons down and fight...all I see is a vampire who doesn't want the dance to end quickly. I have no doubt that he would have killed her if he could have. When Spike told Buffy that the last slayer he killed had begged for her life, we didn't know any different...but because of "Fool for Love" we know that Niki Wood didn't beg for her life...and the Chinese slayer didn't either. Her last words were for her mother. So it kind of puts into question Spike's truthfulness about anything, imo. Spike is all about being macho and impressing people and will maybe say whatever he thinks will portray him that way.


We also learn more about Angel's backstory and see him acting like Angelus for the first time. What did you think of Angel's role in this episode?

I'm always happy when Angel makes an appearance and I love that Angel helped the gang fight in so many episodes. I wasn't worried about Xander, but I do kinda wonder if Angel didn't really like giving Xander a little scare.


Thoughts on the B/A flirting?

Even before the flirting we learned that Buffy was going to the Bronze in hopes of seeing Angel there....and Willow thought Buffy wasn't focused on her studies because she was missing Angel, so I was already happy that B/A was being addressed before Angel showed up at the library. Buffy has just learned that Spike is a really dangerous threat and all she is thinking about is Angel...and why he wasn't at the Bronze. It was like the whole world fell away and they were the only thing that mattered...and it was adorable. Maybe that's why Angel left so abruptly....because he realized how distracting he was for Buffy.


What did you think of Joyce in this episode?

I really wish Joyce wasn't always reminding Buffy about how she had disappointed her in the past...and how she's always worrying that she will disappoint her again....but I loved seeing her pop off to Snyder, and hit Spike in the head with the ax.


How about Buffy and the other Scoobies? Anything stand out?

Really just how good of a friend Willow is. I thought it was great that she was helping her get ready for parent/teacher night.

What did you think about the reveal that Snyder knows more than he's letting on about the supernatural?

What a little weasel Snyder is. And such a lying little coward too. I wasn't surprised that Snyder knew about vampires because he's always seemed shady to me, but I did wonder then why he seemed clueless about the Slayer....and if he knew Buffy was the slayer and still gave her such a hard time he is even worse.


Did you like that Spike killed the Anointed One?

I loved it and thought it topped off the episode perfectly.

Favorite lines/moments?

Well this is silly but I loved watching Xander dancing lamely by himself. Little things like this make the series so enjoyable.

I also laughed when Buffy told Snyder that her mother didn't speak a word of English.

Anything you noticed more on rewatch?

Well I'm sure I noticed this before but I hadn't remembered it.... Cordelia seemed downright gleeful when Joyce ordered Buffy to the car. Her look of pleasure at the thought of Buffy being grounded reminded me of chipped Spike enjoying the mayhem in "The Bargaining". It's so difficult to care at all about Cordelia. For every small step forward she takes...she takes a giant leap backwards.

Spike saying he's a veal guy and telling his victim that he's too old to eat...With retrospect my thoughts went to the Orphanage Spike slaughtered and to what he did to girls Dawn's age.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the delay this week! I got handed an unexpected project on Tuesday afternoon and the last couple of days have been crunch time for me.

1. Overall thoughts on this episode? What did you think of the introduction to Spike and Drusilla? Such a great episode! I can't really put it into words effectively. I loved all the symbolic references to the transition from childhood to adulthood (like Xander pulling the yo-yo, the tampon and the stake from Buffy's bag; Buffy wearing pigtails; the Anointed One getting smoked, etc.)

Spike is definitely a great villain (and a lot of this episode contradicts the "Spike wasn't that bad of a vampire" rationalizations that one comes across online). But I think I was more fascinated with Dru too this time around. Even the Anointed One seems creeped out by her, and he's spent a lot of time with the Master and various vamp underlings!

2. We also learn more about Angel's backstory and see him acting like Angelus for the first time. What did you think of Angel's role in this episode? You know, the more I think about it, the less sure I am of what Angel's plan really was, other than providing a distraction. But he definitely did keep Spike busy for awhile, and he was helpful in the fight.

What I really liked was Giles telling Xander that they needed Angel and demanding that he go to bring Angel to the school. It shows how the Scoobies are starting to rely on him now.

3. Thoughts on the B/A flirting?

bonnaleah wrote:
Even before the flirting we learned that Buffy was going to the Bronze in hopes of seeing Angel there....and Willow thought Buffy wasn't focused on her studies because she was missing Angel, so I was already happy that B/A was being addressed before Angel showed up at the library.


True. I think my favorite B/A moment in the episode is actually the look on Buffy's face when Xander says, "If he does he'll meet some other nice girl? Studying comes first."

4. What did you think of Joyce in this episode? LOVED her at the end standing up to Spike, but the "What I don't want is to be disappointed in you again" line hits hard. And in this episode, you basically have to pretend that the "Normal Again" revelation about the mental clinic never happened. Without that, Joyce can at least be considered clueless.

5. How about Buffy and the other Scoobies? Anything stand out? Xander hugging his bag during the "jinx" scene in the teaser was cute.

I also loved this exchange between Giles and Buffy:

Quote:
Giles: Let me help you.
Buffy: Giles, my mother's in that room. If I don't make it out of here, I know you'll make sure she does.
Giles: Bloody right, I will.


I really enjoyed the scenes with Willow and Cordelia in the closet. Poor Willow.

7. Did you like that Spike killed the Anointed One? What did you think of his line, "From now on, we're gonna have a little less ritual ... and a little more fun around here." I think probably everyone cheered at that moment! It's so perfect. And Spike's line turned out to be pretty prophetic if you use an evil demon's interpretation of "fun."

8. Favorite lines/moments? The whole bit about the lemonade, especially, "How much sugar did you use?" Though, could Buffy really have squeezed that many lemons in such a short time, even with slayer powers? These are the important questions to consider. Smile

This line is also fabulous: "If every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would have been like Woodstock."

9. Anything you noticed more on rewatch? I noticed that "St. Vigeous" sounds a lot like "Sid Vicious," especially when Spike says it. I wondered if Joss and David Greenwalt had him on the brain, since Spike and Dru are supposed to be the Sid and Nancy of vampires.

I also noticed that both Spike and Buffy have red streaks on their faces in back-to-back scenes (blood for Spike and paint for Buffy). I think I had read a comment about it a long time ago, but I had forgotten until I noticed it. It's an interesting touch.

bonnaleah wrote:
Many Spuffy's will point to this episode and claim that this was the beginning of Spuffy and that there was so much sexual tension between Spike and Buffy.


I definitely think there are sexual overtones to this episode, which makes sense since that's the theme of the season, but it truly seemed to me to cast Spike in the role of predator rather than anything mutual.
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x04 "Inca Mummy Girl"
Written by Matt Kiene and Joe Reinkemeyer
Directed by Ellen S. Pressman
Original air date: October 6, 1997



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: Buffy and Joyce offer to take in a foreign exchange student, but instead get a life-sucking mummy who's taken an interest in Xander.

1. Overall thoughts on this episode? Anything stand out on rewatch?
2. What did you think of the introduction to Oz?
3. Thoughts on Xander and Willow in this episode?
4. What did you think of the episode's comparisons of Buffy's situation to Ampata's?
5. Any thoughts on Xander and Buffy's conversation at the end?
6. Angel's not in this one (boo). Did anything in this episode make you think of him or B/A?
7. Favorite lines / scenes?
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