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Whedonesque Is Closing And For Sad Reasons It Seems

 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Whedonesque Is Closing And For Sad Reasons It Seems Reply with quote

The end of a era it seems.

Whedonesque is closing.

These posts was made this morning from Simon and Sunfire.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/36482#510168

August 21 2017

So farewell then. 15 years is a long time and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. But now it's time to say goodbye. No more threads after this one, we're closing down. The site will at some stage become a read only site. So if you want to leave your contact details in this thread for other posters to get in touch that would be great otherwise email us at whedonesque@gmail.com.

The admins would like to thank the posters at this site. You made this site and we wouldn't have lasted as long as we could without you. So thank you. And if you want to mark our passing, please find a charity or organisation that deals with the treatment of Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD) and leave a donation.

And a special thanks to Caroline who I had the privilege of meeting.
Simon | Site news | 16:13 CET | 15 comments total (15 new) | tags: whedonesque

Goodbye everyone. Thanks for everything. Now is a good time to update your user profile with your social accounts if you would like people here to be able to find you now and in the future.
Sunfire | August 21, 16:22 CET

This isn't the time or place to bash Kai or Joss or anyone else. It never was.

As for us, we've had our time in the sun. It's been good. We may Tweet occasionally though.
Simon | August 21, 16:40 CET


The thread is being used for goodbyes so any final farewells should go there.

It seems Whedonesque is shutting down due to Joss ex-wife revealing he was having affairs for years before they split as reported in this article.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/21/joss-whedon-a-hypocrite-preaching-feminist-ideals/

Joss Whedon Named As A “Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals”

Posted by Rich Johnston August 21, 2017

Creator of Buffy, Firefly, Dollhouse, writer/director of the Avengers movies, and creator of comic books Fray and Sugarshock, Joss Whedon, has been accused by his ex-wife, Kai Cole of a series of infidelities throughout their marriage, often with people working on his films and TV shows, starting with Buffy, and as a result being a hypocrite “preaching feminist ideals” in a column she wrote for website The Wrap

http://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

While Whedon had established himself as a feminist icon with the TV show Buffy The Vampire Slayer, of late he has been subject to much greater criticism in that regard regarding his work, statements and attitude. And Cole’s accusations are more in keeping with that criticism.

She stated that after she believed he was “done” with their marriage, that he’d had several affairs with “actresses, co-workers, fans and friends” and kept them secret over fifteen years. The pair split in 2012, but this was kept a secret until reported by US Weekly.

She said the revelation led to her being diagnosed with Complex PTSD, and that she wrote the essay because she wants people to know the truth, that Whedon is “not who he pretends to be. I want the people who worship him to know he is human, and the organizations giving him awards for his feminist work, to think twice in the future about honoring a man who does not practice what he preaches”.

The Wrap also added a response from a spokesperson for Whedon, saying “While this account includes inaccuracies and misrepresentations which can be harmful to their family, Joss is not commenting, out of concern for his children and out of respect for his ex-wife.”

On-line reaction has been swift, and mixed, some saying this confirms what they already thought, others that Whedon has been hoist by his own petard, but very little in defence.


I'm really going to miss Whedonesque.I'm really shocked about the site closing so suddenly.

You can read Kai Cole blog from The Wrap in the link in the Bleeding Cool article.It's does not paint a good light for Joss which I guess is why the runners of Whedoensque have decided on this action.

ETA

Caroline has added some comments.

I have been toying with closing down the site for various reasons for the last five years or so. Because I'd lost interest in the subject matter. For financial reasons. Because I kept thinking the site should be improved (technically) but I didn't have the time or resources. This software is OLD! It is a miracle it was still running on 15 year old code. (Thank you, Milo!) But it was Simon and Sunfire's site as much - if not more - as it was mine, and I didn't have the heart to bring it up. They worked so hard on keeping this place happy and safe.

But most of all, it was your site. I hate it when through the decisions of site owners a community no longer has a place to hang out. But here were are, we're doing it. Our Facebook and Tumblr pages have been shut down and as soon as I can get it done, this site will be moved and switched to read-only.

We're keeping our Twitter account. Because there's 80,000 of you on there following us. So come join us there if you don't already. And thank you, thank you, thank you for making this place legendary.

[ edited by Caroline on 2017-08-21 14:21 ]
Caroline | August 21, 17:12 CET
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Whedonesque closing is being reported on Bleeding Cool News.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/21/whedonesque-website-closes-whedongate-donations-ptsd-treatments/

Whedonesque Website Closes After Whedongate, Requests Donations Towards PTSD Treatments

Posted by Rich Johnston August 21, 2017

Whedonesque is one of the longest-serving and most prominent fan websites, celebrating the work of writer/director Joss Whedon, and of those related to his TV shows, movies and comic books, as well as the careers of cast and crew associated with his projects.

Today, a day after allegations about his behaviour were made public by his ex-wife Kai Cole, iun which she talked about them leading her to be treated for complex PTSD, the Whedonesque webmasters have chosen to close the website. The site will be maintained as it now exists but without any further articles, and comments will soon cease.

While not mentioning the allegations, the site’s motivation is clear as they state “if you want to mark our passing, please find a charity or organisation that deals with the treatment of Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD) and leave a donation.”

Whedonesque was started in 2002 by Caroline van Oosten de Boer and Milo Vermeulen. In 2004, Joss Whedon began posting to the site, increasing its popularity, announcing preview screenings of Serenity, then including his thoughts on Veronica Mars, the canonicity of Buffy comics and updates on his projects. It was there he also announced he was no longer working on a Wonder Woman movie, and the site was cited by major media outlets and in scholarly theses.

The site has, however, been less prominent of late, with fewer stories, links and comments. This may have also contributed to the decision to close and archive the site, but the timing and the references within do seem to imply greater topical reasons.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy crap.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kairos wrote:
Holy crap.


I know,this came as a huge shock.

EW has picked up on the news of Whedonesque closing

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/21/joss-whedon-whedonesque/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so sad. It's always a shame when the good sites close down.
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sybil
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whedonesque tried to be even handed, but became a site that only “positive” things could be written when things STUNK to high heaven, whatever excuse is offered; (and that is why the “backstage lore” is so well known, and “included” and studied, even today—to the point a new person coming to BTVS is so surprising in “what they understand” is even going on) and that sorta ended the BAers having even a voice.
“This is the story now.”
"Okay…but it SUCKS. HARD!! And let me tell you why…." THAT is the difference between using the writing and the “squee.”

I do appreciate writers on tv more because of Joss, but I also learned that “what is on the stage, must be on the page” is also not true. Professional agility is something I do admire, but people who claim to have all this (cough) “integrity” in their work, might show a little of it to people they claim to love. KEEP YOUR WORD. That simple. IF you are going to break it, END it. HOW can anything new be “all beautiful” and “all that” based on “sneaking around”—because it is the sneaking that is hot. Don’t take that personally. No wonder Joss loves robots and puppets, but! wants YOU TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM! Ha!

If he was going to cheat, why didn’t he tell Kai UP FRONT. Because he IS both the idealist and the coward I said he REVEALS in the word “cynical.” (So deeply admired nowadays, as the great truth to survival. Maybe. Doesn’t advance Truth itself, though).

I admire Kai Cole so much in learning she gave up herself. (Funny thing, both her names mean “king.”) Yes, young believes. Yes, private and introverted can be isolated. She did the right things to take back her power, IMO. Also, it is not a mistake to love. However, it is wise to ask, do I honor my talents, am I a better and more expressed person, is my fulfillment “honest”? I use that word because of the tendency to see the self doing for another. It is like “standing on your own” or even the state of being in greatest connection, like when a person prays versus “the heart” behind “the hands” working for the church.

It can’t be “all one way.” THAT is how to read the signs. How you feel about YOU. (And does anyone not love that about both Buffy and Angel?)

Did anyone feel you had to explain stuff to yourself in Buffy’s behavior with all these boyfriends, AFTER meeting Angel—as some sexual independence metaphor “to play the field” when her actual needs and wants were met with Angel, AND it was revealed she thought of no one else (either)? (And the line was given Willow regarding Angelus, who actually is “crumbled” and is DRIVEN MAD?)

And how about when Buffy had “no choice” after trying NOT to love Angel, Riley shows up and never had a chance. Does that seem like JOSS was trying to “quit” and BE that “Captain Cardboard” Riley: the perfect “marriage guy,” as some hope “Buffy” (himself) would “accept” this “false” sort of “supposed to?”

I recall back in the day, Joss was actually disappointed Riley didn’t fly. Personally, perhaps, he may have hoped he could be that guy: even REDEMEED? All he shows is how a nerd could be so deluded. “But what about Buffy and Angel” was all there was!

Yes. Humor is very sexy, and so is one who is so bright, but really…IF he didn’t have POWER, would women globally, who never heard of him, drool enough to swim after?

Now DB, I don’t think is that funny or even bright, but he was chosen for how he LOOKED. Even DB said,out loud on camera, in a cheating scandal, what it was: self entitlement and the manufacture of “doing dirty” to be “hot and sexy”—with a madam, who looks “tired around the eyes,” when his imagination failed at home, not to mention honoring his faith.

(His beautiful wife blamed herself, in not pulling herself out of the computer when he came home, as opposed to the “other women” tearing his clothers off at the door—he said this, on camera and he smiles fondly remembering it, AFTER the incident. Sigh. BUT! I think she shows great loyalty, I am sure DB treasures.

Seems to me, for all the sex * Angel I * is not getting, he remains sexy to many, and none of us doubted Buffy and Angel, or that each one made the other BETTER in their OWN lives? DUH…. The signs are simply NOT there that they "don’t work " and it was been said, NOT only by me, but has been, by choice, carefully AVOIDED! Ring any bells, writer?

This part re Joss and his “explanation” sounds a lot like “blame” and had me on the floor. Laughing. No wonder Buffy never COULD take back her power. How could she? A writer who can’t even imagine the kind of power potential, even in a broken woman doesn't grasp, it isn’t about HIS; and that is why our (healthy) instincts over all the BS about B/S and how Buffy “took back her power" in season 7 and again in season 10, shows Joss is also simply clueless.

I know cheryl adores Joss (writing) beyond the speaking, but I can’t help it, it isn’t the kind of “writing flaws” I address, but the reveal of the writer himself; and exactly why I can’t stop feeling those “warning bells” in his scripts that don’t hold together, and why his women are simply “off.”

I am also am noticing that all these media nowadays, making a female the lead hero, is mostly making them MEN. I have no idea how much or often gay and transgender have to feel misrepresented and even maligned. They are “politicized” and not ‘just people,” struggling in every way, not just “’society” made me do it and hear me roar when I abuse both power and those I love.” Huh?

This part is so rich, I just love all the “maturity” in “blame” and the * self deluding, * self-entitlement, all rolled into one.

“;he said, “In many ways I was the HEIGHT of normal, in this culture. We’re taught to be providers and companions and at the same time, to conquer and acquire — specifically sexually — and I was pulling off both!”’

I recall the old story “ it is nothing for a male to bed 365 women, but it takes a man to satisfy one woman 365 days and nights.” (see Angel. Again his fidelity is the “proof” his story is incomplete ( with Buffy) and even Joss knows it. Doing a story on their marriage would absolutely make Buffy fail, IMO;

Maybe his deep seated guilt couldn’t give up on his ideal, but his cynicism wouldn’t let ANY couple endure in ANY of his work because misuse and abuse of power is all about ‘sexuality.’ No WONDER he thought Marti Noxon was just so cool—and yes, even she figured out she needed psychiatric help. Ha!

Speaking of Greeks, we have Medea, who chose Jason over all—don’t forget she and her children were doomed to horror, slow death, and read nothing but death, as “foreign” and “other.” Her crime was to love. But the actual cost was in all her power, which just goes to show her mistake was not killing Jason.

I don’t suppose there is a crime here, considering HE held the power and judgment. “THEY” were the problem—giving them what they wanted and deserved, (and the deep seated guilt is actually in that abuse (yet, he thinks: I suck, so if I “do it more and harder”—snerk) and over his wife? That he “chipped away”?

Does anyone hear “pathology” much? Jaykers.

Maybe, if Joss let a single couple actually survive and love each other….What you believe is who you are? Well, not really, it might be your reality, but how about when what you believe includes the fact you are SELF DELUDED?

Hugs!
sybil

Okay... is testosterone the problem with planet earth? Discuss. (snerk).
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^sybil, i dont think I'm in the position to refute anything you wrote about joss. As much as I hate joss, I really did try to refrain myself from posting my thoughts here in Blood Roses regarding his wife's expose. I just use my twitter page to rant against Joss. Wink

But, as a DB fan, I couldn't help but notice this following quote from you:


sybil wrote:
Now DB, I don’t think is that funny or even bright, but he was chosen for how he LOOKED. Even DB said,out loud on camera, in a cheating scandal, what it was: self entitlement and the manufacture of “doing dirty” to be “hot and sexy”—with a madam, who looks “tired around the eyes,” when his imagination failed at home, not to mention honoring his faith.



When Kai Cole's expose hit social media, I already saw some nasty tweets that compared his infidelity with DB's cheating scandal. As a DB fan, I'm disgusted by the comparison. But for point of clarification, I'm NOT in any way defending DB's cheating or his transgressions against his wife. I'm just expressing my opinion because many people couldn't help to compare them because they committed the "same" sin. But for me it wasn't really the same.

I think joss' cheating on Cole with his co-workers was NOT the main reason why she spoke about their separation which happened on 2012. I think she was over it as they divorced. She said she went under PTSD treatment and now she has been recovered and satisfied having a career of her own. The MAIN reason why she was compelled to speak out was due to the fact that joss enjoys being called "feminist defender" while his fans didn't know that he himself has abused women, particularly her. She also felt being used, as joss still refer her in public as his "wife" even AFTER they separated, so joss could give FALSE representation to public that he's living a healthy family life.

She felt MORE betrayed about his image of being a "feminist"; so she called him hypocrite.

So even if DB and Joss cheated, their situations are different on some point, particularly on the grounds that DB's wife decided to forgive him and stay by his side, while Cole couldn't even stand joss and even fights against his hypocrisy as a feminist. DB's wife convinced him to divulge in public his affair as she was by his side when they allowed People Magazine to have an interview with them. The article described DB as nervous and teary eyed as he admitted to public his transgressions. While Cole was forced to speak out as she couldn't stand anymore what joss has been doing in public. And she agreed with him to make their separation on 2012 as "confidential" as possible.

Though I agree that their motivation to cheat was due to being "arrogant", as DB admitted that fact on his case, while joss, well, eversince I found out things about that guy, there's no question in my mind that he is indeed arrogant beyond words.

There's also something I want to clarify about your quote:

sybil wrote:
(His beautiful wife blamed herself, in not pulling herself out of the computer when he came home, as opposed to the “other women” tearing his clothers off at the door—he said this, on camera and he smiles fondly remembering it, AFTER the incident. Sigh. BUT! I think she shows great loyalty, I am sure DB treasures.


Could you please state your source where DB retold his affair with smiles on his face? Because, I've seen many articles about his cheating scandal, including his interview with an australian magazine where the people behind it REALLY took what he said out of context, when he said that his affair "saved" his marriage. But I've never seen DB retelling his affair with "smiles on his face". In fact I've never seen answering questions about his affair after that australian mag interview. I've never seen him being asked again about his cheating scandal nor he answered question directly about it. Though, I've seen some allusions about it when he was asked about things he regrets , but I'm pretty sure that his scandal is one of the things he would really avoid answering.

that's all. tnx.

P.S.

i dont mind if we'd talk about this furthermore thru DM. Their cheating scandals, be it joss or david, might be considered by some as "intrusive" and inappropriate for public post. But for me, I don't mind discussing in public or private. Especially now as a DB fan, I am also trying to be vigilante if the guy I'm supporting with is worth defending or not. In fairness with DB, I've seen him being criticized online, even by myself, and I notice how he is able to adjust his mistakes, for public image. His personal life is reserved for himself and his family. I only can comment for the things he shows in public.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elle! So nice to “see” you! Yes, I will agree a. you are the number one fan of DB ever—and long may you reign. And b. You are right. He is not a serial hypocrite. He straight up admitted the cause was himself and said he was “arrogant” and “entitled.” Everything about the circumstances, his very, very pregnant wife; and the celebrity of the madam (and maybe his hope of her discretion) ; and being on the opposite coast of “Hollywood” in NYC–very famous actors live there and aren’t hectored, gave him his sense of “permission.” He thought he wouldn’t get caught. Maybe he even thought he would have a secret and be very interesting to himself again. DB said about himself he is easily bored.

Thus, you are right. He didn’t whine “society made me do it.” He admitted his own specific failures and went with his wife to counseling for them both to find healing. I am sure his church shared some thoughts, as well. I don’t see him doing far flung engagements much “away from home.” He seems to understand forgiveness is important in not betraying that, too. He does his work and he does his life. He has fans like you. It is interesting that Joss hates his father, who actually betrayed his wife and Joss the child himself, while DB loves his father. ‘Nuff said.

I guess I replied mostly because of Joss’s writing and how it felt “off.” I did mention twice that even SMG thought so, too. Joss was cruel. When SMG felt the Parker situation was just wrong, he said to SMG, “that’s what girls do in college.” A. These were the high school years on BTVS and B. he tacked that on to both control HER power about “emotional truth” and his writing; and to HURT SMG, who didn’t go to college, but worked (and got an EMMY, btw). And now we know why. That is what HE did.

Back then people were saying that Buffy didn’t “hide in her room and fall apart” she jumped right back onto the horse. Except for the part I never could understand WHERE ALL HER SELF HATE came from, especially after “the Gift” in which she “gave her all” and was dragged back to do more of that same “giving.” And without Angel. And that is why she bburst out in season seven “the truth” of her feelings. So was Joss.

And you are right. I agree. Joss claims to love these people he actually shapes and even helped create (his children). It would seem he actually just loves himself and even the image of himself to others. He thinks he is entitled to worship, but hides his self hate in denials and worse, behind the curtain of “private life” the real slaughter of his family on his altar.

Joss once spoke of this deep guilt that he doesn’t understand where it comes from. REALLY? Jeez. He loved and admired his father’s writing—and who doesn’t—but hated him for his personal betrayal to HIM, as a child would see “divorce.” Oh, yeah. The same story. So he does the same thing, over and over, because he can’t quite find the “cure to the curse.” Kinda like Buffy and Angel? And this “avoidance” of dealing with the actual problem (himself—just as Buffy and Angel must do, for each one is cursed and then they must do * with each other *. Isn’t that exactly what DB and Jamie did? Yet Joss shows the real “true love” (himself—and there is the “female empowerment” he believes he is showing) and having your cake (calling) and eating it, too (“normal”) between his personal and public lives. No wonder he can’t write the ending.

Well, Kai just bit his cake back.


So, about that interview. It was on tv and not in print, and, frankly, I didn’t pay attention to when and where and even what day. But it exists, and do tune out on stuff like this because it mostly is innuendo and stupid. I don’t care for procedurals, like “Bones,” and the subtleties of DB changing his acting that holds my interest, may be something you noticed. Why I didn’t “follow everyword David had to say is because David was half unintelligible to me, live and in print, when he started, so I didn’t bother to follow his interviews. Besides that, whatever the suits wanted people to say, they did. It’s like sports figures speaking: “ It was great. They were great. It’s gonna be great. We’re tough. We’re ready.” (snore).

So, I tend to turn away from such “shame on you” stuff when media is mostly “it bleeds, it leads” and scandal are all that is considered “news” when there is an entire globe of incredible people, arts, science, events and real news to share every minute! I do pay attention to actual laws that impinge on human rights or serve profiteers over people’s health and lives.

So, in a nutshell, it can’t be EW or such, as I never “tune in” to that on purpose, and “turning on the tv” and his “being there” may have caught my eye, but I didn’t stick around for the whole grovel to get on the real purpose of “season umpty” of “Bones.”

Furthermore, I tend to not care anything about an actor or artists, except for his work. And DB did grow, and I am glad he uses his capabilities to the fullest he can.

I happen to like actors who can claim the stage from Shakespeare to O’Neill; from bit roles on tv…that is one saving grace about procedurals like L&O, those “cameos” are great within all that blah, blah, blah over and over; they “steal the show”—to nuanced development over time (not just blowing sh*t up) . Many of my favorites are considered ugly or plain or are the big “evil” nowadays—especially for women—old, but I adore them and am so grateful “film” even exists since I can’t “live in the theatre.” I am grateful for cultural anthropologists who help me understand our deep connections made through all the arts.

So! I can’t hate Joss even if he sucks as a human being.

We all make mistakes because that is what life is for: to learn. The tragedy is you hurt so many doing it, I guess. But the decent thing is to learn and that is what didn’t happen to Buffy and Angel. Whether Joss actually “produces” the comics, he makes sure they never learn. I thought it was to continue the franchise. Not so “curious” afterall.

And I am talking about the connections of people to the work they make, so I don’t think this is inappropriate, but even more, I don’t prefer to continue about real “weak men” who act the same, do the same and thus, are “all the same” and that makes them just a crashing bore.

HUGS! And be well, too!
sybil
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elle2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^tnx for the reply, sybil.

sybil wrote:
So, about that interview. It was on tv and not in print, and, frankly, I didn’t pay attention to when and where and even what day. But it exists, and do tune out on stuff like this because it mostly is innuendo and stupid.


I guess I have to search the net for this video, because I don't recall seeing him having this kind of "ungentlemanly" gesture to talk about his affair as you described it.

sybil wrote:
I don’t care for procedurals, like “Bones,” and the subtleties of DB changing his acting that holds my interest, may be something you noticed. Why I didn’t “follow everyword David had to say is because David was half unintelligible to me, live and in print, when he started, so I didn’t bother to follow his interviews. Besides that, whatever the suits wanted people to say, they did. It’s like sports figures speaking: “ It was great. They were great. It’s gonna be great. We’re tough. We’re ready.” (snore).


As much as it pains me to read this quote, I agree that most of what you said is FACTUAL. He is obviously not as bright as Whedon, and even he admitted that he's not good with "words". As an American guy, he often commits grammatical errors. He is not good in impromptu interviews. In short, he is NOT an orator. But he is a man of action. He is a "doer", rather than a "thinker". For someone who is an actual jock, DB is a hardworking guy. And what appeals to me, aside from his looks, is his dedication to his work and his efforts to make time with his family, especially with his children. I've read lots of news articles about celebrities' divorces and how it negatively affects their children. I've read actors being addicted to cocaine. I've seen actors who spend most of their time in social media talking to strangers about how good they are as a person and as an actor. I've seen celebs who are "couch potatoes" who do nothing until there's a comic convention to attend just to pay off their bills.... And DB, so far, is none of those kinds of celebs. He is not as talented as others, but he is a hardworking good-looking guy. As a son of famous Philly weatherman, he took jobs as valet and door-to-door salesman. His first jobs were very humbling. And looking back where he started up to where he is now, he has come along a way, for someone who is not really that "intelligible".

sybil wrote:
I happen to like actors who can claim the stage from Shakespeare to O’Neill; from bit roles on tv…that is one saving grace about procedurals like L&O, those “cameos” are great within all that blah, blah, blah over and over; they “steal the show”—to nuanced development over time (not just blowing sh*t up) . Many of my favorites are considered ugly or plain or are the big “evil” nowadays—especially for women—old, but I adore them and am so grateful “film” even exists since I can’t “live in the theatre.” I am grateful for cultural anthropologists who help me understand our deep connections made through all the arts.


I do appreciate those kind of "Shakespearean" actors. One that goes to my mind is Kenneth Brannagh and how I remember being blown away by his performance as Hamlet. I appreciate British actors, there's something about their accent that is really attractive. But as someone coming from Asia, I really am trying to disregard the "accents" as part of actor's basic skills. The film/tv industry is not only focused on Hollywood now. In fact, Asian series are competing in international scenes. With the influx of "comicbook" character series and those that "glorifies" anti-hero characters from western scenes, I tend to look back again in Asian series, as a "purge" from those concept that "violence" is cool, and "sex" is sexy, and rape is "romanticized".


As to the rest of your quotes about Whedon, well, I think with all the posts we have had since he allowed B/S to happen in comics, we already have covered the part where we both think he "failed" as a storyteller of the "grandest story he'll ever write".

I'm not asking you to hate him like I do. My hate for him is personal. He blocked me on twitter during he had his old twitter account, and that was after I criticized him about the B/S storyline in comics. I was not hurt by the mere blocking, but more on the realization that HE IS INDEED A B/S FAN, who couldn't take a criticism against his FAVE SHIP. And that's why I have no doubt in my mind that Whedon is a Spukey fan; that's why he EASILY approved the B/S idea from Scott Allie, who was at that time of S10, busted out from being a KNOWN ASSAULTER in comics industry. And Scott Allie's assaulting behavior was known for A LONG TIME by his employer Darkhorse Comics. If only Allie's victim did not write a blog about his assaulting behavior, Allie won't be forced to make a "public apology" and admitted that he is under substance abuse.

With those kind of people "running" btvs/ats characters, it's easy for us to assume where the "motivation" of their bad ideas is coming from.

Joss' betrayal on providing us what he promised for Bangel fanbase in order for his FAVE character Spuke to "evolve", is the very MAIN thing why I am hurt up to this day, and the triggering part why I hate him so much.

I can't anymore trust him, again. Even if WB tapped him to "finish" Justice League; thus, making him historical in geek world as the only director who got hands with Avengers and Justice League.

It wont be surprising that when JL hits the theater, everything Kai Cole's said will be disregarded, once Whedon had proven his "blockbuster" magic for comic geek fans.

He even tweeted to "wake him up if next month comes", which was his FIRST tweet after Kai Cole exposed him. Next month is October and that's when the finishing touches for JL will be done. He wanted us to see that he's a "professional" guy who doesn't want to give a damn about an "ex-wife's" rants. I already see his fans ready to clamor for his "redemption", once Justice League is premiered.

And that's why my frustrations also include WB and DC comics' greediness to "get even" with Marvel's, that they didn't give a damn that Whedon directed the first Avenger's movie and he was "dumped" by Disney/Marvel due to the backlash he received from Ultron's.

Damn to those studios who don't give a damn about what "integrity" really means.

Okay....enough said. I only came here because of DB. As for joss, sadly, as much as he is considered talented and intelligent by most people, I'm not impressed by him. It's a sad realization for me who usually values "talent" over "looks". But as to the case of Whedon vs. DB, I will choose DB over Joss at this time....until DB suddenly transformed into Charlie Sheen or Bill Cosby type of actors, which by that time, I would be ashamed to be called as his fan.

Because, for someone you look up to...it's important that THERE IS STILL SOMETHING ABOUT HIM/HER TO LOOK UP TO. Once it is gone, what's there to look for?
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dorotea
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, gals, long time no see. Normally , I would not have popped up again, but I saw this :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/10/feminists-shouldnt-trust-the-men-who-call-themselves-allies/?utm_term=.5c24ebf742c3

and this

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/from-aggressive-overtures-to-sexual-assault-harvey-weinsteins-accusers-tell-their-stories

... and it sort of clicked and kind of made me want to come and see how the community here is doing. And yes, I also saw the news of Whedonesque being closed due to Kai's essay.

In a nutshell, I feel sad, disgusted but vindicated. Seriously.

also, I am no longer surprised with anything like Spuffy coming out to be the BtVS 'ultimate' ship. Or the whole numerous enchilada of rape, would be rape, etc, coming up in JW tv and movie scripts. I guess I feel surprised it was so well suppressed in the fandom, and I also feel embarrassed to have spent so much of my time on trying to make sense of what was blatantly obvious.

Apparently the cat is out of the bag. Hope you guys are having great time though! The show was never just about one man fantasies - even though he was its creator. Some creations take life and meaning of their own.
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Kairos
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*faints* Woman, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? Drop me a line, we need to get together again sometime. Smile
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But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
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dorotea
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 957
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I have been to Germany, Romania, India, Belize, Puerto Rico, Russia, Mnt St Helen, Virgin Isles, Greece, Seattle and New Hampshire, not necessarily in that order. I have been into hot yoga, David Lynch, Andjey Sapkowsky , Pokemon Go, House of Cards, web design, geopolitics, Witcher game series and Cat Quest. Not necessarily in that order. Grin. I shall email you indeed.

Hugs!
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comic fan
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Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It nice to hear from you again,dorotea. Smile
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elle2
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Joined: 28 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^welcome back, dorotea. Though, I don't think we have interacted with each other here before. It's always nice to see old timer B/A fans coming back here and share their thoughts. Much respect to you. Though I hope you don't mind if I comment on some of your quotes.


dorotea wrote:
also, I am no longer surprised with anything like Spuffy coming out to be the BtVS 'ultimate' ship.


This is something I have wished as somehow a perception more than a fact. But sadly, I have been seeing signs that the trend will lead into this "ultimate btvs ship" to be the "it" couple in the fandom and in the history of the show. I have been trying hard to prepare myself for the worst possible thing joss would do to Bangel, though I do no longer want to hear/see more news worse than what joss has allowed to happen for B/S in the past years and his admission that he is a B/S shipper.

As a Bangel fangirl in this ship war, it is really tough for me to see the ship I sail slowly sinking and to watch some of its "passengers" going to the other ship just to survive being in the fandom. It made me think of all the time and effort I spent fighting for my ship as somehow worthless and futile because the people whom should have provided support and protection for our ship are the ones giving ammunition to the rival ship for fighting against us.


dorotea wrote:
The show was never just about one man fantasies - even though he was its creator. Some creations take life and meaning of their own


I would have agreed, but if B/S would become the "ULTIMATE" ship and if joss had been behind it all those years, then I think it somehow contradicts that the show was "not about one man fantasies". Yes, it has taken years for B/S to "evolve" into this "romantic relationship" and that's the reason why its fans like it as they called it "development". Joss likes this ship because for him it is better "in long-term".

But what about Bangel? what about Angel's love for Buffy or her love for him?

after another 20 or 30 yrs or even after joss would die, if this B/S trend continues to be a "popular choice" , what kind of life other btvs/ats characters would take life or meaning as "their own" other than what joss wanted them to have?

I know for us B/A fans, BAngel is the ONE and ONLY ULTIMATE ship. But how many of "us" are still out there, being vocal and willing to fight for this ship? Or we just wait for joss to be conked in his head and suddenly retracts whatever he has done bad for BAngel all these years?

If the show was not about one man fantasies, I think BAngel would still sail smoothly despite of all the death threats coming from the rival ship. I mean, if "god" is with us, who can be against us?
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