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Cangel
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm a few years late to the conversation but here we go. I was never really bothered by Spike in the TV show. I don't think Spuffy held a candle to what Bangel had nor did it try to. Cangel on the other hand tried to replicate Bangel and as others have noticed failed miserably in doing so.

The argument I hear alot is Cordy was Angel's best friend knew him best, why not have them be together, it will be mature and grown up, etc. (Insert eye roll because once again Bangel is diminished as a high school romance). But I will take it a step further and say, I don't buy Cordelia being Angel's best friend and confidant. I think that was a forced sell as well. I do buy that Angel and Cordy form a bond, one like an annoying older broody brother and the young nagging sister who you grow affection for despite her annoying attributes. They are stuck together due to the common mission but Cordy never really tries in the early days to understand Angel as much as she tries to change him. I'm currently on Season 2 rewatch and I've hit The Trial so we are about about a year away from the thick of Cangel and Cordy has no deeper understanding as to why Angel is so obsessed with saving Darla's soul nor does she try to understand him. They are about to part ways for a while, during Beige!Angel so its not like their friendship and deep understanding of one another is going to grow this Season. No, this is all about Darla, Angel and his depression. Little to do with Cordy. So by the time we hit Season 3 and Cordy is branded as the one who understands him best, sorry but I didn't see that organically happen. You have once again told rather than shown me this and I don't buy it. So, I would make the rather controversial argument that Cordy was not this spectacular friend who knew Angel better than anyone else. Rather, she was a good friend who encouraged him to live life, add some color to his wardrobe, and reminded him that he was a eunich.

devotedbangel wrote:
What really cracks me up though is how Cangel shippers twist things to support their ship. They say how much Angel loved Cordy and vice versa. All I saw was other people having to tell them that they were in love. What about at the end of "Spin the Bottle" when Angel asks Cordy, "Were we in love?" Even Angel isn't sure!!!! They never said "I love you" to each other. Not once.


The degree of fanon required to support the Cangel ship is significant. You have to overlook Angel's feelings for Buffy, you have to overlook the fact that Angel and Cordelia never actually even had one date, not one single romantic kiss outside of the influence of magic or alternative universes or dreams.

I understand that many Cangel shippers like to do the whole "but Joss and look at what he did to CC." But where do they possibly think this relationship would have gone? Would Cordy be content with knowing she and Angel could be together because she was not his perfect happiness? Would they have figured out his curse? If they figured out his curse don't you think that the Buffy question would come up? After all thats one of the reasons he left her? There was no place for this to go. Even Joss said in an interview once, we ran out of ideas for Cordelia that is why we wrote her out. And to be honest, despite the pregnancy - how would Cordy have worked in Season 5? I can't really see it.

And then there is the biggest problem for the Cangel shipper. He never says "I love you" to Cordy. And he has so many opportunities to do it. So many chances:

_tragicsymphony wrote:
"Awakening" drops a major anvil with the C/A dream sex sequence. If this is his perfect fantasy, then how come he never tells her he loves her? It only gets worse. When he realizes he has to kill her, he still can't say it. All he can say is, "I'm so sorry."


As mentioned above, Awakening, when he is going to kill her, but even before that, when Skip reveals that Jasmine has been influencing everything (I have a personal head canon about this and how it relates to Cangel), Angel says "The woman I...." and he stops himself. Why time and time again is he holding himself back from saying he loves her? This is a deliberate action by the writers. This is not accidental. I think at the end of the day there is something sacred about the fact that up until that point neither Angel nor Buffy has said I love you to anyone else but each other (with the exception non-romantic pairings). And yes - Buffy says it to Spike in Chosen but Spike doesn't believe her and neither do I.

He has a chance to tell her in YW once again. I loved you, or I was going to tell you I love you. Or I still love you. Instead he says "I'm lost without you." Well yeah, she was his seer, his access to the Powers. How is he supposed to know if he is on the right track without her?

And side note: You know what line KILLS me in You're Welcome??

Quote:
Cordy: Angel, there are no people like us.


If you are talking Champions - well I hate to break it to you but there are = Buffy for starters. Doyle sacrificed himself that was pretty heroic, you just watched his video. Spike went and saved the world recently and thinks he is going to shanshu. Many of AI and the Scoobies put their lives on the line for the big battles. I don't understand what she means here and I really dislike it. If there are two unique individuals out there, that are unlike anyone else it is Buffy and Angel. They carry the burdens of their teams, of the the world.

And finally, this notion that you can compare Buffy and Cordelia's heroism to me is the biggest insult of all. Buffy was called at 15, has laid her life on the line time and time again for this world. She has died TWICE. She has stopped 5? apocalypses. I appreciate the growth that Cordelia has shown and the courage she has to maintain her visions but once she becomes part demon her visions don't even bother her anymore. Doyle understood that he was not a warrior, he knew he was a messenger and even he gave his life up for the cause. Cordelia was a vital asset to the team, but she does not compare to Buffy.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
I'm currently on Season 2 rewatch and I've hit The Trial so we are about about a year away from the thick of Cangel and Cordy has no deeper understanding as to why Angel is so obsessed with saving Darla's soul nor does she try to understand him. They are about to part ways for a while, during Beige!Angel so its not like their friendship and deep understanding of one another is going to grow this Season.


It's kind of shocking on rewatch to see how fast the AI "family" falls apart. In To Shanshu in LA and Judgment, they seem super tight, but by Untouched, Angel says he has no family in LA and there's this exchange:

Angel: "This is Wesley and Cordelia."
Bethany: "So, it's a family business, huh?"
Angel: "Friends. Come on in."

I think they could have built Cangel out of the ashes of Season 2 if Cordy had not forgiven Angel with the clothes thing. If they had seriously worked to rebuild a friendship and had that grow into something more. (But of course I'm selfishly glad they didn't do that.) Instead it was just, like, Cordelia has always been Angel's most bestest friend, duh.

My head canon is that after Forever, Angel was so devastated that he couldn't protect and take care of Buffy that he channeled all that energy into Cordelia. Harmony showing up in the very next episode would have kept all the Sunnydale stuff fresh in his mind. At that point, Cordelia may even have reminded him of Buffy during that first painful year in LA when she was losing all her Hemery friends and dealing with her calling.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Grace Newman"]
dcai0830 wrote:
I think they could have built Cangel out of the ashes of Season 2 if Cordy had not forgiven Angel with the clothes thing. If they had seriously worked to rebuild a friendship and had that grow into something more.


Yes. At least they would have made a believer out of me re the "Cordy is Angel's best friend and right hand." Instead that line is told to me but never shown to me. Even Xander and Buffy have a more significant build up towards a deep friendship and I don't even like Xander all that much!

I do see Cordy as very loyal to Angel starting in early Season 2. But she obviously still thinks of him as her boss/big brother. She calls him "boss" a few times in Season 2. In Season 1 Angel is broodilicious due to Buffy. In Season 2, he is broodilicious due to Darla. He doesn't really glance over at Cordy until end of Season 2 and by then its like - "Hey look at this magical friendship everyone."

But I mean where did that come from?

I really like the head canon that Forever affected Angel and Cordy may have become a mirror to Buffy from this point on. But I also think that Angel is just generally a protective guy. I mean even with Kate - I don't believe he has any romantic feelings for her by the time Epiphany rolls around but he looks extremely panicked when he arrives to her attempted suicide. He cares deeply for people. I don't always read that as romantic. I also see a tight bond between Angel and Faith with no romantic involvement but he cares for her very much and that is evident in S9.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
But I also think that Angel is just generally a protective guy. I mean even with Kate - I don't believe he has any romantic feelings for her by the time Epiphany rolls around but he looks extremely panicked when he arrives to her attempted suicide. He cares deeply for people. I don't always read that as romantic. I also see a tight bond between Angel and Faith with no romantic involvement but he cares for her very much and that is evident in S9.


I'm not going to disagree with you there! I'm not saying that Angel can't be protective of Cordelia without romantic feelings for her. I'm just saying that post-Epiphany, he displays a level of devotion to Cordelia that goes beyond what I think their pre-Beige friendship would naturally have produced. Part of it is his epiphany, of course, and realizing again that he needs his friends, and part of it is that the visions hurt her, but the Forever head canon is how I get to the "magical friendship," as you put it, that appears in late Season 2.

And, given that Cordelia is Cordelia, if Angel treats her like the most important person in his life, she's definitely going to think she deserves the title. Smile

So that's how I explain the Cangel vibes up till Birthday, when Jasmine starts to take over and turns Cordelia into a literal Buffy-lite.

I can't blame Angel for wanting an outlet, platonic or not, for all the gushy love in his heart. He's a giver. I think he feels best when he's able to show love through actions, right?
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Grace Newman"]
dcai0830 wrote:
I can't blame Angel for wanting an outlet, platonic or not, for all the gushy love in his heart. He's a giver. I think he feels best when he's able to show love through actions, right?


Very true especially since he isn’t big with the words. Smile
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