Blood Roses Community Forum Index

"It started with a girl..."


 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Bangel fandom v. Spuffy fandom
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> B/A Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your responses! I do wonder as I make my way around the fandom's old posts, generally "where are they now?" It feels like to me from a purely subjective standpoint that the more fans that join the fandom these days tend to be Spuffy fans. I'm not sure if that is because they are younger (although I was quite young and shipped Bangel at first watch) or if it speaks more to the culture of what people look for in relationships on TV these days. I find interesting/intriguing and mildly annoying lol.

Both of you mentioned the comics:

Kairos wrote:
frustrated with comics,


Dark Star wrote:
I know I've said this before, but although the comics inspired some of the fans, for many others (myself included) it had completely the opposite effect.


What I find interesting is that its a bit of a circular theme we have going on where, because the fandom is dominated by very vocal Spuffy shippers, the comics appear to be targeting them and therefore no Bangel reunion seems on the horizon and seems more and more l like a pipe dream. And the more and more the comics push the Spuffy (or non B/A) narrative the more the small amount of Bangel fans still holding on to last shreds of hope fall away and stop buying the comics.

It seems a bit naive but I think it would be nice to have a bit of a resurgence of Bangel fans being vocal about their dislike for the directions of the comics and if we had that would it change the trajectory of the story at all? I mean who knows by now it may all be set and too late to turn back. I don't even know who to be vocal about it with!

I feel a little like Will Ferrell in Old School:

"We're going streaking...Th... W... There's more coming." Laughing
_________________
"Shoulder to Shoulder. I'm Yours."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
taaroko
Dark Avenger


Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 352
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the comics had hooked me from the start and only began going downhill after building a solid foundation of good stuff, I might have put up more of a fight about the direction of the story and character arcs. But I didn't like S8 starting pretty early on, and my reactions ever since have ranged from "meh" to active dislike, all the while not feeling connected enough to any of them to be able to accept them as canon, as I do automatically with even the worst episodes of the shows. So I'd kind of prefer them to just fail, because after four seasons of rubbish, I almost don't want it to get good. In a way, that would legitimize the rest of the comics, and I'm not sure anything can be good enough for that to be worth it.

(That being said, I am still buying the Angel comics because he's my favorite character in all of fiction and it's difficult not to follow his progress. Probably going to stop thanks to this Illyria nonsense, though.)

In terms of fandom, we do seem to be having a bit of a Buffy/Angel resurgence on BB, and I increasingly want to go back to writing Buffy/Angel fanfiction over my newer fandoms and shove aside all the new shows on my list so I can do yet another Buffyverse rewatch.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taaroko wrote:
In terms of fandom, we do seem to be having a bit of a Buffy/Angel resurgence on BB, and I increasingly want to go back to writing Buffy/Angel fanfiction over my newer fandoms and shove aside all the new shows on my list so I can do yet another Buffyverse rewatch.


That's something! Smile And if the comics suck I need some fan fiction to help me get through the cold cold nights.

Still - I feel like if I just had like 30 minutes to talk to Christos Gage. He seems like a reasonable man. I feel like I could make him understand. Because let's face it Joss is too busy to care these days.
_________________
"Shoulder to Shoulder. I'm Yours."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It seems a bit naive but I think it would be nice to have a bit of a resurgence of Bangel fans being vocal about their dislike for the directions of the comics and if we had that would it change the trajectory of the story at all? I mean who knows by now it may all be set and too late to turn back. I don't even know who to be vocal about it with!


Well for what it's worth I did send an email to Buffy@darkhorse.com and rather vehemently expressed my displeasure and extreme dislike for the current direction both titles have taken. I also tweeted Joss. I figure at this point even if it doesn't help...it sure can't hurt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonnaleah wrote:
Well for what it's worth I did send an email to Buffy@darkhorse.com and rather vehemently expressed my displeasure and extreme dislike for the current direction both titles have taken. I also tweeted Joss. I figure at this point even if it doesn't help...it sure can't hurt.


I had no idea there was an email address I could write to! Now its on. Did you get an email back? I'm going to spread the word. Smile

I tweeted Gage. He said told me that life = change or some crap like that.
_________________
"Shoulder to Shoulder. I'm Yours."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No , I haven't received a reply from darkhorse or Joss. I doubt I will but it still did me good to say my piece.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elle2
Warrior


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
bonnaleah wrote:
Well for what it's worth I did send an email to Buffy@darkhorse.com and rather vehemently expressed my displeasure and extreme dislike for the current direction both titles have taken. I also tweeted Joss. I figure at this point even if it doesn't help...it sure can't hurt.


I had no idea there was an email address I could write to! Now its on. Did you get an email back? I'm going to spread the word. Smile

I tweeted Gage. He said told me that life = change or some crap like that.


sorry to butt in, but can't help to share my experience when it comes to reaching out to the present TPTB aka joss & darkhorse comics writers via twitter.

Tweeting joss is futile nowadays unless he reads the replies on his tweets. But if you would just tag his account name, I doubt he would read it. Twitter added functions for users to only receive notifications from those they "follow and followed them back". And I bet joss has chosen this option after the backlash he received about Ultron. He usually blocked those who opposed him. It just so happened that the Ultron backlashes were too many for him to handle; so instead of blocking them all, he just quit twitter. I was one of those he blocked prior to Ultron's mess. He blocked me after I send him series of tweets during the release of B/S drawing panels for S10 lovefest. When I found out that he came back to twitter for his "saving the day" propaganda against Trump, I immediately tweeted him some rants about the comics. To my surprise he did not block me, and hasn't still. And I noticed it then that he only replied to those accounts he follows. That's when I realized that joss must have chosen the option to mute notifications other than those he follows back.

But who knows? there's also a chance that I might be wrong. There's nothing wrong if you just keep on tagging him if you want to tell him something. Even if I have just given up hope that my sentiments will be noticed by him or any Bangel fan connected with joss, I'm still hoping that other B/A'ers will not give up on speaking up especially those who are really good in words.

.

As to Christos Gage, well, he also blocked me the same time joss blocked me. Few months ago, I shared a link of thread where Gage "compared Bangel to B/S". There were few Angel fans argued with Gage. I posted the link, in hope that other Bangel or Angel fans who have twitter accounts would also rebut with Gage. Sadly, even that I failed to convince anyone here.

A twitter friend recently shared to me a thread where few Bangel fans repeatedly pointed out to Gage the difference of Angel's relationship with Buffy as to B/S. It was discussed in light of sexual abuse happening in Hollywood. Some Bangel fans AGAIN pointed out that depicting B/S as a LEGIT ROMANCE is somehow cultivating an idealogy that an abusive relationship will turn out "healthy" if developed in years. I didn't exactly read the whole thread. I only read Gage's tweet that if "there was a discussion like this before, S10 direction might have different". When I read that tweet I just ventilated, "WTF". I mean, I wasn't the only Bangel fan who TRIED again and again in reaching out for discussion with them about Bangel vs B/S during S10. I remember Janas also tried to reach out to him, DIPLOMATICALLY, until she also gave up and couldn't help but to share her rants with me on private messages. Unfortunately, i don't know what happened to Janas. I tried DM'ing and tagging her on twitter, but she no longer replied back. The last time I heard from her was early of last year. She expressed her deep sadness and anger because she considered Bangel as her joy. Her life was making art about Bangel. I remember her tried joining other tv fandoms (i.e. The Flash), but I personally observed that she wasn't really into it like she was with Buffy and Angel. Her silence was also noticeable during BtVS 20th anniversary. Though in her condition of undergoing chemotherapy, I am thinking that staying away from the fandom might be the BEST thing to do for her. If she considers Bangel as a huge part of her happiness, when it's current direction is catastrophic, then I can understand if Janas prefers to stay away. Some of us, including myself, consider Bangel more than a work of fiction. It was real for us, in a moment. Cheering for its EXISTENCE is enough to bring us happiness and inspiration.

So if Bangel is set to sink, where will we go? I already expressed in twitter that "I will go down with my ship". Sadly, I also raised my white flag. It's just my personal decision to "give up" on BAngel talks in twitter because I felt I have spoken so many words that were just ignored even by other Bangel fans I reached out with. I also get tired....I was hoping that SMG and DB would continue their social media interaction so I could pretend even in that kind of moment, that BAngel is still alive. Sadly, I also observe that after BtVS reunion, SMG has been slowly "drifting away" from Bangel as she usually now recognizes any posts that pertains to B/S and JM. She hardly "likes" or mentions Bangel posts nowadays as she used to before the BtVS reunion. Though DB and SMG still follow each other, it seems these two prefer to be silent with each other in public eye. DB is now busy in SEAL Team. SMG is combining all her past movie/tv works in promotion of her business. I wish them the best. But it's just so sad for me to see that SMG who is THE ONLY AND BIGGEST Bangel shipper we have had, is "flirting" with B/S fans as she's been giving them what they have wanted; a B/S recognition from her and her interaction with JM.

So there...I'm not ranting. I'm just being sad.

Sorry again for butting in. I'm just glad to see other B/A'ers posting again, even if we dont get great news nowadays for Bangel fanbase.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elle2 wrote:
A twitter friend recently shared to me a thread where few Bangel fans repeatedly pointed out to Gage the difference of Angel's relationship with Buffy as to B/S. It was discussed in light of sexual abuse happening in Hollywood. Some Bangel fans AGAIN pointed out that depicting B/S as a LEGIT ROMANCE is somehow cultivating an idealogy that an abusive relationship will turn out "healthy" if developed in years. I didn't exactly read the whole thread. I only read Gage's tweet that if "there was a discussion like this before, S10 direction might have different". When I read that tweet I just ventilated, "WTF". I mean, I wasn't the only Bangel fan who TRIED again and again in reaching out for discussion with them about Bangel vs B/S during S10. I remember Janas also tried to reach out to him, DIPLOMATICALLY, until she also gave up and couldn't help but to share her rants with me on private messages. Unfortunately, i don't know what happened to Janas. I tried DM'ing and tagging her on twitter, but she no longer replied back. The last time I heard from her was early of last year. She expressed her deep sadness and anger because she considered Bangel as her joy. Her life was making art about Bangel. I remember her tried joining other tv fandoms (i.e. The Flash), but I personally observed that she wasn't really into it like she was with Buffy and Angel. Her silence was also noticeable during BtVS 20th anniversary. Though in her condition of undergoing chemotherapy, I am thinking that staying away from the fandom might be the BEST thing to do for her. If she considers Bangel as a huge part of her happiness, when it's current direction is catastrophic, then I can understand if Janas prefers to stay away. Some of us, including myself, consider Bangel more than a work of fiction. It was real for us, in a moment. Cheering for its EXISTENCE is enough to bring us happiness and inspiration.


Hi Elle - first of all you are not butting in as you are very much a part of this community and I appreciate your feedback on this topic.

I was involved in some twitter back and forth with Christos recently. I know that he was responding to the A/R issues and he seemed to respond to it using the Angelus/demon spike dichotomy and then he basically shut down. Now, I like many of you find the A/R as a pathway to redemption narrative incredibly disturbing in so many ways but obliviously Christos and I would assume Joss to some extent feel that the distinction of the soul is where they draw the line. (I'm not here to argue on their behalf believe me when I say - I get it its disturbing.) But I think that in large part the discussion regarding the A/R tends to shut the conversation down. I do wish there was in addition to attacking the writers more of a diplomatic discourse as you say as to the merits for bringing the pair back together and showing them that there are still Bangel fans out there who will buy their comics if they did so.

As an aside, we just had a small little ship battle on BB and Bangel came in 3rd place where as Spuffy was voted off pretty early on. Some of the moderate/non-shippers still prefer a Bangel pairing. Spuffy fans are just a VOCAL majority.

But certainly the only way to sway anyone in this regard is to show them the prospect for selling more issues. Honestly, Spuffy is getting quite boring in the comics. Not much drama there, its time for them to shake things up. And what better way than to have Buffy realize where her heart really is?

But the fandom is bigger than the comics and the Bangel fandom is alive and well in discussions, and fan fiction, and threads discussions about how we are so much better a ship than the other ships Wink

I'm sorry to hear that you have lost touch with Janas. I see she was a poster over on BB as well. But if you should decide to join the conversation there is still much to be said. For example, IWRY marathon is going on right now on AO3! Smile
_________________
"Shoulder to Shoulder. I'm Yours."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylie
Warrior


Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such an interesting thread to read. I think there are many factors when it comes to Spuffy being more popular, one of them being the popularity of Spike, as a character. That kind of character is very popular these days.

It is sad that Bangel shippers have lost interest in the comics, but understandable. It's kind of a vicious circle. Spuffy (and the way Bangel is treated) turns of Bangel shippers so they stop buying the comics, the writers focus more on Spuffy, the spuffy fans are happy and keep buying the comics so the writers write more spuffy, and so on. I still read the comics, but I only buy the ones I love.

I have to say elle2's points about SMG and DB on social medias made me sad. I noticed too a lack of interactions between those 2 after the reunion and felt it was a bit weird? Especially considering that SMG didn't tweet her usual birthday wishes to DB but did for JM. It made me a bit worried that maybe something bad happened at the reunion? I'm probably just making too big a deal out of it, but it just makes me sad. I miss the interactions, especially since it was pretty much the only thing we had going for ourselves. Everything else tends to be pro-spuffy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elle2
Warrior


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mylie wrote:
I have to say elle2's points about SMG and DB on social medias made me sad. I noticed too a lack of interactions between those 2 after the reunion and felt it was a bit weird? Especially considering that SMG didn't tweet her usual birthday wishes to DB but did for JM. It made me a bit worried that maybe something bad happened at the reunion? I'm probably just making too big a deal out of it, but it just makes me sad. I miss the interactions, especially since it was pretty much the only thing we had going for ourselves. Everything else tends to be pro-spuffy.


Very disheartening, indeed. I was one of many Bangel fans who witnessed their interactions when SMG first joined social media via twitter. All my qualms about her joining socmed temporarily gone when the excitement filled my whole senses whenever I saw them interacting. I said it before that ONLY Sarah/David interactions kept my hope for Bangel alive during those days when Darkhorse comics about to build up the B/S lovefest, and it is proven true as my hope for BAngel started to weaken after SMG "gave in" to JM and Spukey fans.

I can still remember how crazy I behaved in social media after I noticed DB started to "distance" himself away from SMG. I criticized him for not returning the favor to SMG when it comes to public bday greetings as she did for him for three years. I was also heartbroken that SMG starting to soften with B/S fans on social media. She "liked" B/S stuffs and JM's tweets more than Bangel's and DB's tweets last year. Yes, based on my observation too, SMG started to "turn her back" away from DB and Bangel after EW's BtVS reunion came out on April, 2017. I wish I knew what happened exactly that made SMG "changed her heart and mind" away from Bangel.

But, I firmly blame the B/S, Spukey and JM fans who always bash her whenever she and David interacted or she mentioned Bangel more. I can't blame SMG for "softening" to B/S fans. She needs ALL her fans to promote her business product and unfortunately that includes BtVS fans who are B/S fans. I also felt that SMG has been returning favor to JM as he "Retweeted and Liked" SMG's tweets as if he was "helping" SMG to promote her products. Between SMG and DB, I have more frustrations against DB when it comes to keeping BAngel alive. SMG has done us MUCH favors so I couldn't really put the blame on her if she "chooses" to side with B/S, Spukey and JM. Even if I am a big DB fan, I have this issue against him when it comes to him being SILENT about Bangel.

However, I always believe that DB is only AVOIDING being caught in between the BtVS ship war. And lately, that suspicion is increasingly growing as I notice that DB has NO problem REMEMBERING Angel in social media. He has been "liking and commenting" on Charisma Carpenter's Instagram posts most notably when it comes to their Angel days. He has also been "liking" SMG's Instagram posts. I think DB is more comfortable in IG than he has ever been in twitter. He rarely "likes" tweets. He only does Retweets and quote on them in old twitter format. But in IG, he has been liking and commenting on his former co-stars posts, most notably with CC. And just recently, he followed Julie Benz. However, he has yet to comment again on SMG's IG posts after his simple bday greeting to her last year.

So, I don't think DB and SMG severed their "special connection". As long as SMG doesn't follow JM on IG or she unfollows DB, I still believe that SMG/DB friendship is as strong as before. Though, I wish they would BRING BACK the public interactions for us to see, because as Mylie said, that it is THE ONLY THING WE HAD GOING FOR OURSELVES, or for those Bangel fans like me whose hope has been waning for Bangel love story to remain the BEST for eternity.

I CONDEMN the Darkhorse's comic version. SO MUCH!!! I condemn it SO MUCH that I don't care whether they make Bangel as endgame or not. If I could only wish for NON-EXISTENCE of anything in this world, Darkhorse's BTVS & Ats comic versions would be Number 1 on my list. That is, even if they made Bangel win at endgame. Bangel as ENDGAME with B/S story FILLING 95% of the comics seasons would be HOLLOW VICTORY. My feelings would also be the same if the stupid comic writers would write Spuke the GREATEST SACRIFICE of letting Buffy go so she could be with Angel. Because making such, only makes Spuke the GREATEST HERO AND LOVER in the history of btvs, which by his name goes, is really puke worthy.
Cordelia and Faith were DEVELOPED without BELITTLING Buffy's sacrifice. But in Spuke's story, the MAIN character had to be SIDELINED so he COULD HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT. The ONLY thing that MADE Buffy REGRESSED was the stupid "love/hate" STORYLINE in Btvs S6 onwards, which made everything POSITIVE via B/S lovefest as their story goes that the ALL the HUMILIATION she SUFFERED were GONE because Spuke HAPPENED to be the "greatest lover" of Buffy, as that what the stupid comics was trying to tell us; hence, he is the "RIGHT CHOICE". stupid...stupid...stupid "love" story.


Mylie wrote:
I think there are many factors when it comes to Spuffy being more popular, one of them being the popularity of Spike, as a character. That kind of character is very popular these days.


I also notice the same. I remember there was this taiwanese series that became SO popular in my country as well as in half of Asia. It's called "Meteor Garden". It was adapted from a manga series where the MAIN ship is between this arrogant leader of a "notorious rich brats" and a "strong-willed" girl. Actually it was a love triangle but the MAIN guy who WON the girl was that leader who bullied, shamed, and almost raped this "strong-willed" girl. Basically, their "love story" is that he was "challenged" by this girl as she is THE ONLY GIRL who has ever stood up against him. So, he did everything to HUMILIATE her and destroy her confidence, until he realized that "fell in love" with her. And so the guy "CHANGED FOR GOOD" because he fell in love with "a strong special girl". And she fell in love too with his "GOOD ACTION" because she was overwhelmed of witnessing how this bad boy CHANGED FOR HER. As Sybil once quoted, "Bully until She Breaks" is another term for our present day "fairy tale romantic comedy". It's kinda scary how things we want for a guy is taken literally by some other writers and convert it into a great love story. I think that any "love story" about a girl CONVERTING bad guys into good guys even if it's ONE-SIDED at first, is more appealing nowadays than the old fashion MUTUAL love. Remember that most B/S and Spukey fans who say they don't like Angel but they LOVE Angelus, because he's a "FUN" character being evil. So there, in spite of being bombarded with superheroes nowadays, there still bunch of people who CHEER for bad guys who are "cocky", "arrogant", "overly sarcastic" but became this "helpless romantic" once they met the girl of their dreams.

Oh...just for clarification, I was NOT a fan of that taiwanese series, nor its Korean adaptation. I'm just familiar with the story, because it was SO popular that all the people surrounding me can narrate everything even if i didn't watch it. But my sister was a fan of the "other" guy who didn't get the girl. The soft spoken, sensitive, brooding guy whom the girl first in-love with but unfortunately, he has lots of issues in his life so that created "distance" between him and the girl. I thought, that sounds familiar. Wink

Anyway, Mylie, sorry if I happen to write some rants in this post. But I hope you understand that those rants were not for you. I'm glad to see that there are still Bangel fans like you and others who post here and 'keep this forum alive. In spite of B/A'er like me whose hope is weakened by events surrounding Bangel, I hope you guys will stay positive as you are and in turn be an inspiration for other B/A'er especially the newbies.

Thank you. Good day.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I wonder if after the 20th anniversary Joss had some sort of conversation even if it was off the cuff telling Buffy to tone it down on the pro-Bangel talk considering Spuffy fans were a big part of the fan base and they are the ones buying the comics?

Do you think the actors/SMG get any royalties off of the use of their likeness in the comics? At this point its probably minuscule considering the sales have gone down as much.

I guess I just wonder how much of it was the higher ups telling her to tone it down and play nice with both sides of the aisle.
_________________
"Shoulder to Shoulder. I'm Yours."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> B/A Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group