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Angel Season 1: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x17 Eternity
Written by Tracey Stern
Directed by Regis B. Kimble
Original air date: April 4, 2000



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. What did you think of Rebecca Lowell?
3. Thoughts on how Wesley and Cordelia responded to "Angelus"?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch? And do you have a theory on how the happy pill thing worked?
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eternity

Overall thoughts on this episode? Strangely enough, I like it. I say strangely because I don't find Rebecca Lowell particularly believable, and the justification for bringing Angelus out to play is flimsy as hell. But, overall, there is enough here to make me like it.

I particularly love the opening with Wesley and Angel at Cordelia's play. I assume that specific line from A Doll's House was chosen to prefigure Rebecca's situation, in which her value is tied to her looks and she sees herself as essentially a doll in the man's world of Hollywood. She doesn't see any way to shape her own fate, and unlike Nora she doesn't want to leave. So her answer is to become a doll forever, locked in time. Except she doesn't know what it really means to be a vampire, since she's only met the "Care Bear with fangs" version. (I am not super familiar with A Doll's House, so if anyone has insights to share, I'd love them!)

Cordelia is absolutely hilarious in this episode, and Wesley is very insightful. I love his understanding that Buffy was crucial to Angel's moment of perfect happiness. Why does no one else get that? Smile

I think most of what I love about this episode is that Angel is just so hoooootttt in it. He does the formalwear thing. Drool. I love his big smile when Rebecca spills champagne on him. And there's something about him all relaxed on the couch, talking in that low voice about how he's missed being with a warm human being (coff, Buffy, coff) that just makes me all melty inside. (It's easy for me to just ignore Rebecca in that scene, lol. My mind goes to Buffy and non-drugged domestic situations like that in the future...)

And then BAM! it turns into a horror movie that's really chilling, and I like that.

I have to say, it doesn't feel very Angelus to be afraid of a little bit of holy water. But Cordelia is lovely in that scene.

What did you think of Rebecca Lowell? This episode would have worked better if they could have gotten a (somewhat) famous actress for one episode. The actress they got just didn't have enough charisma to carry it off, though she wasn't actually bad. I never really believed her in the role.

I also just hate her for being willing to manipulate Angel after all the care and attention he'd given her. I guess she's probably used to that, but Mad. The last time I watched this episode (when I was doing the comparisons with BtVS S1 for my parallels thread that I'll get back to someday), I wrote: "Why are people such d*cks to this sweet manpire?" And I continue to ask the question.

Favorite lines/scenes?

"The Dark Revenger!"

"Angel's moment of true happiness occurred because he was with Buffy. You realize how rare that is - true happiness? And what are the odds he'd find it with an actress." I like how this line manages to support B/A and throw shade on Angel/Cordelia at the same time. Wink

Anything stand out on rewatch?

So vampires can get in through glass, hmm... LOL.

"A season and a half off the air and suddenly I'm a nobody again." DB seems to have taken this line to heart since he's never been off the air long since BtVS started.

Cordelia saying she was on the "first wave of the cleanup crew" when Angelus came out in Sunnydale is just funny. Way to exaggerate!

This is the second episode in a row in which an attractive dark-haired woman has offered Angel champagne. Hee.

And do you have a theory on how the happy pill thing worked? So the best I can do without thinking about this too much is that the tranquilizer somehow worked on all parts of Angel except the demon. So Angelus was able to take over.

The idea that a state of euphoria would trick Angel into thinking he lost his soul makes no sense, since it seems to be a painful process and he would totally have noticed.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expecting:

I'm just going to be general about my feedback. I really like this episode even though I feel like I'm not supposed to? (I do acknowledge that it would be great if our girls could get laid without having horrible repercussions - and I am annoyed that the writers keep doing this to them.) If that make sense. This is the Angel and Cordy dynamic I enjoy. He's like the annoying older brother figure. He wants to know who she's dating because she worries about her. He cares about her. He defends her as being young and trying to find her way to Wesley. It's cool.

Grace wrote:
It seems cold for Angel and Wes to leave Cordelia on the floor with her vision, though I understand why they did.


Yeah but this is kinda how they treated Doyle. For example, remember when he is having a vision and Cordy covers up by pretending he is guessing an answer? I don't think the show has solidified that the visions are these excruciating experiences for Cordy. As a matter of fact, I don't really remember that being a big focus until late s2/s3? But I'll have to be on the look out this watch through. My impression has always been that the visions become horribly painful to the point of debilitation as a plot contrivance. See here how Cordy has a vision, she gets up writes the info and she is off to the club with her friends. I guess I can buy that the visions get worse because she is a human so they start to take a toll on her. But it is rather convenient.

I kinda love how Wes is really trying to fit into the group but doesn't know how to come out and say "hey can I work here too?" I also think it's interesting how Wesley views Cordy in this episode. He thinks she is somewhat irresponsible. Cordy has been given this big responsibility, a duty so to speak, and Wesley, coming from the perspective of a Watcher thinks she needs to automatically take that seriously and commit herself to the cause. Of course, this is why Wesley was such a shit Watcher. He doesn't understand that Cordy is young, as Slayers are, and that this sense of duty/responsibility above all doesn't happen overnight. But I love the naivete we see from him and how he is still very much driven by the things he learned as a watcher, the rules that one must follow etc.

But at the same time, I think there is a part of Angel that understands that he needs to be patient with both Wes and Cordy in different ways. Like he defends Cordy to Wes but doesn't chastise him and as Grace says above he finds a way to include him. He knows that just like Cordy is still growing up and finding her place in life, so too is Wesley growing up and has much to learn.

Ironically, Angel has much to learn as well. In different ways. Maybe not in the ways of the world but learning to have friends, interact with humans, etc. I just love how they kinda all teach each other things. But anyway - I'm getting ahead of myself.

I am annoyed at Cordy's conversation about the "guy who is supposed to have the big bag of fame and fortune" it's... ugh annoying. Like the trope of the women who go to college to meet a man. Just blegh not here for that. Not cool Cordy.

There is something so hot about how Angel vamps out. I think I need some therapy to figure out why I find that so incredibly sexy. lol.

Favorites:

"So you the boyfriend"
"No. I'm Family."

"we fight termites wherever they may roam."

I also love Wes and Angel's conversation after the demon hatching fight. I love them so much.

Script Notes:

Really not much here. One thing I did notice is the script had Angel saying "Cordy" instead of "Cordelia" and Angel doesn't call call Cordelia "Cordy" until much later. So it''s interesting.
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Grace Newman
Dark Avenger


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
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Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D wrote:
Yeah but this is kinda how they treated Doyle. For example, remember when he is having a vision and Cordy covers up by pretending he is guessing an answer? I don't think the show has solidified that the visions are these excruciating experiences for Cordy.


Well, it doesn't have to be the worst pain ever for me to react to someone actually being on the floor. With Doyle, I remember him putting his head down at the bar and stuff like that, but I don't remember a similar situation where he was on the floor and no one tried to help him. I could be misremembering. And as I said, I understood why they did it, it was just something that struck me. I'm sure Cordelia preferred them covering it up.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grace wrote:
I don't remember a similar situation where he was on the floor and no one tried to help him.


Fair point. And in She, Cordy is about to have a vision and she says "hold me" as she crashes back and they seem to lunge forward to help her. So - yeah probably just covering it up for her friends.

She

Also known as the one where I keep checking how long I have left on this episode. It really has been a while since I watched this ... it's worse than I remember.

How can an episode have SUCH a great beginning and literally be the worst thing ever after that? (Except the museum curator thing which is great). It's just puzzling.

Quote:
Actually in hell you tend to know a lot of the people.


I need someone to write a fic where Angel runs into his old evil friends in hell and they have an awkward conversation.

There is something weird about the way Angel is written in some parts of this episode. Like the scene with Cordy where he says being quiet makes him "kind of cool" and when he says "I'm depressed now" just that whole exchange it feels strange. It kinda reminds me of s3 Angel he is overly emotive and a little too self-aware. Idk. Maybe that's just me. It's not the whole episode...

Grace wrote:
Nope! Let's give her a boob window and call it a day! BUT, having said all that, I don't understand how Angel's heavy-breathing expository scene with boob-windowed Jheira is hotter than Buffy and Riley's actual sex scene, but there you have it.


This was THE BEST. I agree with every word.

I remember listening to the episode of Dusted and Allistair had me in tears when he was making fun of the cell phone scene. He said something like Angel spends like 40 minutes messing with his cell phone and what is the point of that entire scene. And honestly yes, what the hell?? It is so weird and clunky and just ... no.

What in the world does this exchange mean? "You're a vampire" "Among other things." Huh? Isn't he like just a vampire? I mean is he referring to his soul here or? The writing in this episode is so weird.

Help... I hate this episode and there is still 11 minutes left.

I can't believe what a spectacular failure this episode is it. At least they get a good shot of Cordy/Wesley/Angel walking off to fight.

Why are only the men affected by the hot Ko thing?

Script Notes:

A wise cut line:

Quote:
Wesley: Our little Cordelia knows how to put on a "do," doesn't she? The music inspires abandon, the ladies are both plentiful and fair.


But this was cut too which is sad because it's such a cute little Angel/Wesley moment:

Quote:
WESLEY And these delicious mini-reubens - they've got the little sauerkraut, the little swiss -what mad genius brought these into the world?

He looks down at the table. Empty plate. His face falls.

WESLEY Oh. They're all - they would go fast.

Angel produces a paper party plate from behind his back, several of the little sandwiches and shrimp puffs on it.

ANGEL I saved you a few.

WESLEY Shrimp puffs, too? You're a dear man. (eats, checks out party) Well, what say a couple of brooding demon hunters start chatting up some of the fillies -


Lol I love this script notes for Angel's dance that they call it a DB dance because I always see behind the scene stuff with him and he does silly dances.

Quote:
WHITE FLASH! And Angel is suddenly on the dance floor doing that crazy David Boreanaz dance. People give him a wide swath - Laura backs away in horror. FLASH!


Cut scene:

Quote:
Cor is at the computer, typing. Wesley is sprawled on the floor, surrounded by piles of the old books, pouring through several of them, distracted and a little distraught, making a continuous "mmm-tsk" sound and drumming his fingers.

Cor endures this for a beat, then gets up, moves to Wesley.

CORDELIA Hi.

WESLEY Huh? Oh, hi.

CORDELIA Any luck?

WESLEY No. Other dimensions than ours it's a field of infinite variety and a not terribly well charted one at that.

He flips pages, drumming his fingers, making the "mmm-tsk" sound.

CORDELIA But you're trying hard. You want to do well here.

WESLEY Oh yes, indeed.

CORDELIA And I want to see you do well here.

WESLEY Why thank you, Cordelia, that's very kind -

CORDELIA But if you don't stop drumming your fingers and making that "mmm-tsk" sound I'm going to drop my computer on your head.


Script mentions Jhiera as having bright blue eyes instead of violet.

The Manet description was longer:

Quote:
And this brings us to Manet's incomparable La Musique aux Tuileries. First exhibited in 1863, Manet's depiction of modern life, along with his severe lighting contrasts and rich texture outraged the Academic critics of the day.


After Shari is kidnapped the next scene where Jhiera is in Angel's apartment, I thought it was interesting that the scene was blocked differently.

Quote:
Jhiera - regal, beautiful - sits watching Angel as he enters his office with a wet towel and some bandages. Her gaze is strong, penetrating.


Angel's "I'm gonna help you whether you like it or not." wasn't in the script. I wish it wasn't in the episode. I wish there was no episode.

When Angel has Tay in a grip and he tells Jhiera to go script says:

Quote:
ANGEL Go.

Jhiera doesn't wait for him to say it twice. She races for the truck. Climbs in and takes off.


Which is funny because in the episode she does hesitate and he does have to say it twice.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Angel's “I'm gonna help you whether you like it or not.” wasn't in the script. I wish it wasn't in the episode. I wish there was no episode.


I cackled!
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x18 Five by Five
Written by Jim Kouf
Directed by James A. Contner
Original air date: April 25, 2000



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. How do you feel about the continuation of Faith's arc from BtVS? Does it feel believable to you?
3. Thoughts on the flashback scenes and the Angel/Faith parallels?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch?
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've Got You Under My Skin

I have always really enjoyed this episode. I like not just the family vibe, Angel's guilt, the building up of the AI dynamics etc but the main plot is so intriguing. The soullesss human. Yikes!

This is an episode in which Angel really feels like the big brother (and almost) parent of Wes and Cordy.

I do love the exchange between Cordy and Angel about Doyle. Cordy has a great way of cutting through the bullshit, and when she puts it to good use she can be a very good friend to have around. Especially for Angel.

I like the Exorcism (the film) feel of all of this and the twist of the human without a soul being even more scary than a demon.

It's very endearing to see how much Angel cares about Wesley. And I know much of that is his projection of guilt for what happens to Doyle but obviously this is because he feels close to Wesley. It makes me happy to see their relationship progressing. I wish they would have explored the Father issue and how it relates to Angel and his daddy issues. But this comes up again later, so I'll just be patient. Smile

I love the ENTIRE scene at Ricks Magic 'n Stuff.

The one thing that really bugged me about this episode was that Angel takes over for Wesley in the exorcism instead of learning to let Wesley take his own risks for the good of the team. But I guess like TM says, a Vampire doing the exorcism was just too good to pass up.

I find this episode creepy and cool. And I want more. I, like Grace, agree that the soulless human mythology was rich for exploration.

Favorite Lines:

"Like anyone needs to live forever"
"No one needs that."

"It was full of roasty goodness"
"I use chocolate that's why they're brown."
HE IS SO PRECIOUS!!!

I'll come back to do the script notes along with my next review.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Prodigal

Grace wrote:
Do you think he feels more sympathy for his own father and for Kate's dad because he has felt somewhat fatherly toward Doyle and Wesley (and even Cordelia, but it's kind of gross to say that!)?


If I had to guess, I'd say not yet. Certainly, when he has a child of his own and when that child feels so negatively about him I think Angel gains some perspective on the relationship with his own father. I know the show is pushing the whole "family dynamic" between AI but it's still a rather slow burn. The episode starts with Angel admitting he doesn't know Cordelia's birthday. So he may feel paternal towards them because they are younger but he isn't strictly in the role of the father, in my eyes. I still think of him more as the big brother which is really only like 2% less cringe-y given the future Cangel angle (haha... Cangel angle....)

But to me this episode is really less about Angel having perspective on his father and more about how Angel's relationship with his father has shaped him (and how that might mirror Kate's relationship with her dad and how it has shaped her). But I agree with Grace above that the two are not necessarily expertly integrated. Ultimately the relationship and issues Kate has with her father are different than those of Angel's and his father. I suppose the similarities are that they were both desperately seeking their father's approval and their father died before they could get it. And of course from here we will see the downward spiral that Kate goes through as a result of her father's death and the lack of resolution from those issues (blargh I sound like a self-help book) which I suppose you could argue is similar to what we see in Angelus' actions except of course corrupted and exponentially more dangerous (read:evil) given the nature of the demon.

The line that always gets me is "I was never in your way, boy." Liam seems to think lay all of his troubles at his father's feet. He thinks that he is who he is because his father made him that way. I think the answer is probably not so simple, right? Sure, that man could not have been easy to live with, his expectations high, his desire for Liam to be something he had no desire to be, etc. But Liam was his own man, could have forged his own life, could have found success and happiness despite his father. And yet instead he had not amounted to much and took very little personal responsibility for it.

These issues don't ever appear to be addressed directly with Angel but Angel is certainly distinct in that he does take personal responsibility. And so I'd like to think that somewhere along the way in these 200 years he gained some perspective on Liam's flaws.

I'm not sure if that sounds awfully harsh on Liam. I don't mean to belittle the toxicity of the relationship with his father. I just don't think all of Liam's failures/woes/shortcomings should be levied against his father. This is coming from someone with an incredibly complicated and unhealthy relationship with her mother so - idk maybe this is just my personal life relating to this story.

I'm going to take a quick second to pour out a shot for the "vampires don't have breath" lore upon seeing ALL OF THE BREATHING going on when Angel rises and meets Darla. It's a cold night and their breath is literally visible. LOL. Anyway I just love the wackiness of the whedonverse lore.

I always think it's so interesting to see baby Angelus. I do see what others see where he is clearly looking to Darla for approval. But all on his own he makes a decision to take the village.

I don't necessarily want to get into it in detail here but the line regarding bad choices:

Quote:
Yeah, I know all about it, Wes.
Believe me. But sometimes the price
we end up paying for one bad choice
isn't commensurate with the offense.


You could look at it a few ways. Was it the choice to leave, walk away from his father, rebel that lead him into that alley that night? Or is the show trying to reflect more of the personal responsibility angle in becoming a vampire? Just food for thought and of course this discussion has come up other places (not just in relation to Angel but also Spike). But it does lead me to think that maybe the true mirrors of this episode might be Angel and Trevor. And I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Ugh Kathy's death is always heartbreaking. I can't imagine how it must haunt Angel. Her love and trust in him lead to her ruin.

If I wasn't so tired I would try and think of how Darla's line about "same love will infect our hearts" and Angelus' unsettled response about this being the work of love might be related to Angelus' very nature of despising love (perhaps because love - even if the perversion /obsession version of the concept or what have you - is what still has power over him? And Angelus is consumed with the need for power?) Idk... maybe I'll come back to this when I'm less tired.

Script Notes

I liked the notes on the interactions between Kathy and Liam:

Quote:
Angel ignores his Father. Moves to his mother and sister. Kneels down to the little girl who looks at him sadly. He has a special, kind smile for her.

ANGEL Sweet Kathy. No tears. We'll meet again.


These script notes regarding Angelus' rising from the grave, are interesting as well:

Quote:
Darla gives Angel a gentle push, with:

DARLA
You know what to do...

Angel is still unsteady, unsure, but some instinct in him is trying to surface. He looks, a tentative child, to his encouraging mother. She nods. He turns back hungrily toward the man... and MORPHS to VAMPIRE FACE.


and after the kill:

Quote:
Angel, back to NORMAL FACE (on a cut), has finished his kill, looks rejuvenated, lets the body drop there at his feet, looks to Darla, his eyes shining. And her eyes shine right back at him, admiring her new creation.

Angel revels in the new strength. His first kill. He's suddenly no longer the confused creature that just clawed out of the grave -- he's rejuvenated.

DARLA
It makes sense now, doesn't it?

He nods.

ANGEL
Yes -- perfect sense.

DARLA
Now you can do anything. Have anyone
in the village. Who will it be?

Angel looks at her. Angelus, now.

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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D wrote:
The line that always gets me is "I was never in your way, boy." Liam seems to think lay all of his troubles at his father's feet. He thinks that he is who he is because his father made him that way. I think the answer is probably not so simple, right? Sure, that man could not have been easy to live with, his expectations high, his desire for Liam to be something he had no desire to be, etc. But Liam was his own man, could have forged his own life, could have found success and happiness despite his father. And yet instead he had not amounted to much and took very little personal responsibility for it.


I think you are definitely right here. Though I agree with Angel's take in Amends, "I was young. I never had a chance to..." I know I personally had not sorted through the garbage in my relationship with my parents by my mid-twenties. I do think it's very possible that Liam would have come to some sobering realizations (literally) if he'd had more time on his own and could very well have turned it all around.

D wrote:
I'm going to take a quick second to pour out a shot for the "vampires don't have breath" lore upon seeing ALL OF THE BREATHING going on when Angel rises and meets Darla. It's a cold night and their breath is literally visible. LOL. Anyway I just love the wackiness of the whedonverse lore.


Apparently, when it's "keeping with established lore" versus money, the money wins! LOL.

D wrote:
But it does lead me to think that maybe the true mirrors of this episode might be Angel and Trevor. And I'm not sure how I feel about that.


This is good food for thought, thank you! There are definitely parallels there — with a choice spiraling into something worse than they both could have imagined and costing them their lives. And in that their stubbornness worked against them — Liam left to spite his dad, which may ultimately have led to his death; Trevor wouldn't let Angel in, even though he could have saved Trevor's life.

I doubt I'll ever get on board with the "Angel bears responsibility for becoming a vampire" argument that some people make, but Liam certainly bears responsibility for his choices as Liam. And it seems like he made a lot of not-very-good ones, just like Trevor.

That also makes me wonder if there's a Kate/Trevor and Kathy/Liam parallel, in that these female family members are devastated by these men they trust (though that's the opposite of what the men themselves want).
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Five by Five

Overall thoughts on this episode? In short, it's brilliant. The part with the guy who needs to testify in court is kind of clunky and heavy-handed, but the rest of it just builds perfectly to that killer ending. It never fails to make me cry.

How do you feel about the continuation of Faith's arc from BtVS? Does it feel believable to you? I was taken aback on first watch, because I felt like Faith had made some progress in Who Are You, and I was surprised by how scary and violent she was. But then it all made sense by the end.

Thoughts on the flashback scenes and the Angel/Faith parallels? I like Darla with the Gibson girl look. But her near-immediate understanding that Angel has a soul is kind of weird, especially because it literally had never happened before (that we know of). But I guess the soul-sensing is a thing in the Buffyverse.

On first watch, I really didn't like the way they decided to go with the Romani girl backstory. I had just vaguely imagined something much more intense, and making the whole thing basically Darla's fault bothers me for some reason.

But overall, they're really well-done. I particularly like the way we see Angel say, "I am a monster!" to foreshadow the ending and give us a sense of how he realizes what Faith is really after.

Favorite lines/scenes?

Everything about the scene in the alley in the end is perfect. When Wes' knife clatters to the ground....Ugh.

Anything stand out on rewatch? Angel's "I'm the boss" attitude in this episode reminds me of Buffy's in "When She Was Bad" -- he pushes his friends away to protect them but the trap is for them. (He definitely won't do that again! LOL.)

I love Dennis' protectiveness! Why does no one ever heed his warnings?

Angel continues being able to get into people's houses without an invitation. Did the apartment guy die in the hospital?

From Tim Minear:
Quote:
"We knew we wanted to bring Faith back, and I think the episode works on all cylinders. Here's an interesting behind the scenes item: The writer, Jim Kouf, writes big feature films, and sometimes he writes scenes that are not producible for a TV show because he is used to working with much more money. So he wrote this big, huge fight at the end that you actually get to see because we shot it. But he wrote it to take place in the rain, and we decided that we can't afford the rain. It was going to be too much material to shoot and that's going to be one extra technical complication that's going to make it impossible. So we cut the rain from the script. If you notice, the big fight at the end, when Faith collapses in Angel's arms, it's in the rain. That is because it actually rained. It poured while we were shooting. It was the first night of a big torrential rain storm that we had for several days. It started that night, on the set of Angel, while Angel and Faith were fighting."
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x19 Sanctuary
Written by Tim Minear and Joss Whedon
Directed by Michael Lange
Original air date: May 2, 2000



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. What do you think of Faith's turnaround?
3. Thoughts on the B/A dynamic in this episode?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanctuary

Overall thoughts on this episode?  It's great. It's hard to watch at times, but it's great. I've read so much good stuff about this episode lately (examples: here, here, here and here), so I don't feel like what I have to say is all that interesting.

It's definitely an episode that I've changed my mind a lot about since first watch. I think it's easy to overlook where Buffy is coming from at first. The episode puts her into a challenging role, especially just coming in to be a complication for the last couple of acts. What Faith did to Buffy really is *so* bad, and the episode is a little unfair on that score, I think. Buffy is set up a little too much to be the bad guy. By this time, her pain is no longer so fresh in our minds, the way Faith's breakdown is, and Buffy didn't get to see said breakdown, of course.

I know I'm way more on Buffy's side now than I was originally, though that just makes it about even. She's definitely in the wrong in the (what seems to me to be) very calculated way that she throws Riley in Angel's face (though I can definitely relate to that particular tactic), especially because what she's saying isn't even true (even if you believe that she loves Riley, which is debatable imo, she has always trusted Angel when it mattered). But her tactic works better than I think even she wants it to. We can see that it gets Angel right in the gut, because his response is so different here than after her (admittedly much milder and more natural) "I'm on the brink of something back home" line in I Will Remember You. Angel's the one who wanted her to have the "great new life" in the first place, so what he says to Buffy is pretty crappy, too. And definitely the way he yells at her to go home means that he needed to initiate the makeup, so even though I would say she "started it" in terms of going beyond high-emotion arguing into actual meanness, it was up to him to "end it."

I really enjoy Wesley in this episode, though again I think it's iffy that he comes across so well — even though he doesn't really change his mind about Faith and does what he does for Angel — whereas Buffy doesn't, even though she helps to save Faith's life for her own sake.

What do you think of Faith's turnaround? I really feel for Faith in this episode. Though, when she tells Buffy that "Angel said there was no way you were gonna give me a chance," I still kinda want to smack her. Smile

Favorite lines/scenes? 
"Developed a sweet fang, have you?"
"Rumor has it he used to actually date one."
"I gotta be the first slayer in history to be sponsored by a vampire."

Faith: So, how does this - work?
Angel: There is no real simple answer to that. I won't lie to you and tell you that it'll be easy - because it won't be. Just because you've decided to change doesn't mean that the world is ready for you to. The truth is - no matter how much you suffer, no matter how many good deeds you do to try to make up for the past - you may never balance out the cosmic scale. The only thing I can promise you is that you'll probably be haunted - and maybe for the rest of your life.
Faith indicates the microwave: So how does *this* work?

Anything stand out on rewatch? In previous watches, I had forgotten about the scene in Enemies where Faith comes to Angel with bloody hands and tries to get him to sleep with her and lose his soul, and Buffy spots them at the end, without knowing the context. A lot of similar elements to the Sanctuary scene. I wonder if Angel himself even realized that Faith had pulled the freaked-out-by-blood-on-her-hands thing before as a ruse.

SMG does such a good job of making it seem like Buffy's trying really hard not to throw up in that first scene.

Buffy looks so absolutely tiny when she's wearing all black in the end scene. I wonder if that's deliberate thematically — since Buffy is being minimized in Angel's life at this point. Although, then again, they are both in all black, so maybe it's more of an equalizer (instead of Angel being "worse" than Buffy). Two heroes, both alike in wardrobe, in shadowy Los Angeles, where we lay our scene, From fairly recent breakup break to new mutiny, after demon blood makes Faith's hands unclean. LOL.
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Grace Newman
Dark Avenger


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 478
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x20 War Zone
Written by Garry Campbell
Directed by David Straiton
Original air date: May 9, 2000



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. What did you think of our introduction to Gunn?
3. Thoughts on Cordelia and Wesley and David Nabbit?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch?
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