Blood Roses Community Forum Index

"It started with a girl..."


 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

BOOM Buffy # 2 GD Par2 Variant Cover
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> Comics Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 869

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t know that it was possible to get a font that big! Hee!

One of the things the comics tried to do was to say that Buffy learned to like being the Slayer. I mean that she started out NOT wanting to be the slayer, but in wanting “normal.” The comics later said being the slayer is (her?) ‘normal.’ So what does this mean regarding the sacrifice, selflessness you speak of? Well, the comics said she would willingly walk into hell to “save the world”—it was Fryllia who actually did enabling Buffy to RETAIN her slayer specialness, yet also reach for that ‘normal’ in taking a job that wasn’t living below the poverty line and at the generosity of her “family” to house/feed her—not that police necessarily are the highest paid people, but most certainly do better than the armed forces.

ANYWAY! My understanding of the story was that Buffy’s slayer powers are within EVERYONE, that these powers to face the fear of the unknown, face down a world view of only the self gets to “win.” Buffy found out in the harshest terms possible that “winning” (the battle, the right thing, the selfless thing, etc) was to lose what meant most to her in this world: Angel. I also thought that Buffy would learn to see (from her mother, for example, and maybe Giles,too) that ‘normal’ doesn’t always mean “knowing what to do or having all the answers to make every single thing all happy, safe, and secured forever.”

I also thought the “promise” of death that is the reality of life, that we would see the ‘portal’ or “promise” in Buffy/Angel’s deaths OR! In the destruction of the world, as they both face it, that the ‘result’ would not be able to kill off or seal off the immortal ‘demons’ and “vampires”that are inner struggles with immaturity, selfishness, fear, anger, arrogance, et al that “get into” people—maybe as “spirits” for the end of the tale. This idea is because this story is “shown” in terms of dualities: the physical body and the “spirit.” ( Rather than the “factoid” that material reality means the physical and spiritual are both “material” or have “existence”—even in the words describing that existence).

I thought that the “story” would show Buffy’s “internalization” of lessons and achieving “normal” as understanding that “the slayer” being in everyone, is the power to fight these “spiritual” realities we call “demons” or “drives toward evil.” I thought Joss would show Buffy and Angel “destroy the world” of (childhood) AGAINST the world of demons walking around in horns, scales, tails, et al considered ugly. After all, we all know from Angelus that evil can look very pretty, too.

I guess I wasn’t looking for a “job” in the exact same world of childhood. The reason, of course, is because Angel’s story for wanting “normal” and facing his own demons was in his great need for “mortality” or “the normal” of life that INCLUDES DEATH. It would mean his God had FORGIVEN HIM in allowing him to die as a mortal man. THAT is his need for “normal.” So, to me, they sorta forget the entire BALANCE of story, both in the world (S) depicted of the spiritual/psychological and that of the “material/physical” world we operate in. Further, they gave Xander and Dawn the entire package of sugar coated “happy ever after” in work, marriage, a child, the extended family all in a good place ALL AT ONCE, which de facto is NOT “normal.”

Also! Spike was to be this ‘poet” and a bad one who also was a “truth teller” which is exactly how a real poet feels, and is why people are driven (mad) to find the truth within the words that actually achieve “true poetry.” The fact every poet FAILS is actually the IMMORTAL struggle that truly defines the human condition. That is why Spike did not get ‘what he was’ when he got his soul: A HUMAN MORTAL BEING. Don’t forget that Spike NEVER had been a vampire with a soul, so the whole “solution” for Spike’s “redemption” story never made “sense.”

The fact they made Spike “still” at the end of season seven, while Buffy “danced over death” is exactly why Angel cannot be still, as he was as a vampire with a soul, but must be ‘opposite’ aka “active.” THAT ending in season seven when the writers “killed” Spike to show his version of ‘shanshu’—achieving his mortality/death, is why they decided to make BUFFY so still at the end of the comics. She can’t be, so that isn’t the end of the story: it is STASIS.

The problem is that I simply don’t care that they will never “fix” this story because they continually choose these ‘left turns’ away from the “obvious” TRUTH of their own story, I simply can’t invest in more lies that belittle the very power of “story” in the very reasons people tell them! It is weak, it is stupid, it requires OOC trials and errors, and it is paralyzingly BORING. It finally insults the hearts and minds of the audience.

I very simply state that a diseased mind that would “sleep with Spike,” is not exactly a ringing endorsement for B/S, and simply “telling the tale” the actual STORY set out to tell simply cannot include B/S in a ‘healthy mind” of its protagonist. The actual problems set forth had to be faced and understood. Last I checked, it was “father,” and unasked ‘responsibility,” learning that one has the internal power to face these overwhelming duties within one’s own gifts, and to learn the humility that others also offer a POV that may ‘open the path” to a new way to see and solve problems. Further, one can learn one is NOT a victim because “the world” would define you as one. You can “stand up” and “fight” for the right things, even if it kills you, and you also can learn that making mistakes does not mean ‘the death penalty’ to your own self esteem: You can change. You can be better, stronger.” Buffy said these things.

You alsocan help another just “being there.” That is something so clearly shown in Angel’s story, too. He was solace, comfort, the real POWER of compassion. He said it: there is no greater power than MERCY. And why? Because he knew there was nothing worse than to suddenly care and be put in the position of no redemption; with no way to die, and no way to even eat to survive.

THAT is why Angel is the balance to Buffy, who joins him in feeling alone, barely able to keep her body alive, yet feed her soul with more than darkness and death. She knows how hard it is to NOT be hard and how simple and easy it was to not care. ‘Falling off a log” to kill: remove ALL HOPE of potential. It is why her insights for Angel to also help himself from his state of being “overwhelmed” (with HURT/pride/guilt) gave him the path to struggle, to keep choosing the way and LEARN he DESERVES to LIVE, not just “die” to both end his pain or as some hoped for sign of his redemption.

So, I agree with you that keeping Spike around like some “hair shirt” in Buffy’s life and in Angel’s life, as a failed foil, makes no sense, especially when the story of DRU is “off loaded” onto Fred/Illyria in such a way that AGAIN makes FRED, the “female,” having NO RIGHTS TO HER OWN AUTONOMY….AGAIN! (hee).

The biggest problem I have with “the new slayers” is that it makes for ‘special people’ among all people when EVERYONE has the slayer inside—other than psycho/sociopaths who are simply not “normal.” ( They have no capacity and we haven’t the science to help them find it). Anyway! When I spoke of male and female principles, it was a version of ancient ‘psychiatry’ that is in EVERYONE, whatever gender/sexuality, just as having the power to try and DISCOVER and to LEARN is just “being human.” That is why this story of slayer power simply did not go far ENOUGH!

Yes, “killing Giles” was a good idea in ‘internalizing the lessons of the father,” so Buffy has the social skills to survive, for example, and to show that Giles, himself, the father figure, can ALSO renew. That it was Angel was significant, as ‘father’ is his dealio, as well. That is also why ‘something has to be done” about both Dawn and Connor OR else THERE IS NO POINT to watching Buffy or Angel. They are merely AVATARS, and CANNOT accomplish the actual story of “becoming.” They are immortally doomed to STRUGGLE. That’s all there is. Th-That’s all, Folks!”

And the latter, that nothing is done about Dawn and Connor, (as the “real people” having these avatars inside—which has to be “flipped over” IMO, to have Buffy and Angel or other supernatural beings as “the real people” on some journey to adulthood—is the reason why Spike WILL be included.. Also that is WHY I absolutely will step off yet another “CW BAD” version of B/A and all the nothingness notions of female empowerment, as shown over and over in even things like “Twilight.”

As for Joss, many feel he is becoming ‘hackneye’—but it has to be granted he is doing ‘comic books’ and ‘serious complication’ is not what he was doing with Buffy/Angel. Mythical structures may seem to be a pattern of tragedy, but that is also the reason for seeing actual complexity. And this one, actually had a happy ending because Odysseus actually LEARNED. Which is exactly what is missing in BTVS and ATS as now rendered. That makes them avatars I could care less for the shadow of thin paper this represents in an actual human being.

All this talk of “protecting” the children” had its own OTHER form of “transformation.” Joss made it clear he ALWAYS showed a great hatred of “father” because he felt his own had cheated and betrayed him/his familty/in the same way shown on BTVS. Joss said his father ONCE said, he was a good writer. ANYWAY, when his father died, he became a saint and the perfect family man, et al. Yes, Joss gets along with his siblings. His “scoobies” that are in the same fields he is in. Just shows to “go ya.” Meanwhile, Kai is back to doing her own work and brilliantly, so yeah! for her.

I don’t “spy’ on the kids of any of these people to know how they are doing or even what they will do what they do it when they are grown up and live their own lives.

David and his wife get along and David likes the rolls of guys who never quite “break,” but keep on getting up. He likes the ‘silly’ IMO. I feel these two are a very simple view on acting, IMO, but he succeeds with this formula because what is on TV is so very formulaic aka “monster of the week’ and barely an ‘underarc’ as “story B” to move forward between years of ‘problem, fight scene, solution.’ BTVS was so much more and ATS SHOULD have been so much more because the ARC WAS THE STORY of Angel’s internal life in testing “limits” and “limits he put on himself.” So, “it matters what we do” is only STRUGGLE, NOT LEARNING, NOT REDEMPTION and he will remain a vampire forever with that. Which is what an AVATAR does. And, apprarently what Joss became satisfied with in order to keep the same story EXACTLY the same, making the “point” of actual CHANGE, of getting better/stronger, et al THE FANTASY.

Joss no longer tries to get that “magic” he created with BTVS. Nor has he been willing to face the fact he really doesn’t know how Angel would change because he simply can’t believe it for himself. He learned to like the success of shallow. That is why ‘the poet’ Spike actually represents will ever elude him. That is why I also can’t bear it for him to actually do a ballet. Just UGH. Sentimental awful on stilts with arm waving, and just painful, but in all the “not good” ways. See B/A.

HUGS!
sybil

I think you are so angry because you actually know to be afraid, very afraid and you shouldn't have to. It makes you mad because you DO understand and DO care! It's really the supreme Joss "manipulation" for us who waited for years and years to get handed this "dreck" and that made it all just "sad." For me, I'm not going to let Joss take what I know I understood and saw, despite his cowardice and inability to "get the magic" of something that so rarely happens in art; what we saw and understood is actually bigger than anything Joss himself could have made out of his own intentions; it transcended what he made and became UNIVERSAL. THat is called "ART."

HUGS, AGAIN!

sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 274

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^thanks for the AGAIN, sybil. At least, now you know how to enlarge letters! Wink
I am willing to get more eye bags just to wait for your response in order for me to respond right away. Very Happy

Quote:
One of the things the comics tried to do was to say that Buffy learned to like being the Slayer. I mean that she started out NOT wanting to be the slayer, but in wanting “normal.” The comics later said being the slayer is (her?) ‘normal.’ So what does this mean regarding the sacrifice, selflessness you speak of? Well, the comics said she would willingly walk into hell to “save the world”—it was Fryllia who actually did enabling Buffy to RETAIN her slayer specialness, yet also reach for that ‘normal’ in taking a job that wasn’t living below the poverty line and at the generosity of her “family” to house/feed her—not that police necessarily are the highest paid people, but most certainly do better than the armed forces.


So, if that's the comics logic, then Buffy THE Slayer is THE NORMAL (Real) Buffy, while the Police Buffy was just for a "stable" job. Hah. Would that be like Batman is THE (Normal) REAL person, while Bruce Wayne is just for the financial job? Or Superman is THE NORMAL life for Kal-El, while Clark Kent is just a facade so he could have a paying job??! Me thinks NOT. Because Batman and Superman are trying to PROTECT their secret identities, so they needed Bruce and Clark MORE than of having "stable" jobs. And besides, Bruce Wayne CHOSE to be Batman to (arguably) battle his childhood trauma! While Superman, CHOSE to be Clark Kent so he could live like an Average Joe just like how Jesus Christ was portrayed in the Bible. The TERM that would differentiate Batman's and Superman's lives, or even Jesus, is THE WORD CHOOSE. They ARE NOT CHOSEN to do what ENDED up doing. They chose to do it and chose to be WHO THEY WANT TO BE, and that's the reason why I think, it's easier for Batman/Bruce and Superman/Clark or (even the divine side of Jesus) to ACCEPT their paths and do their heroic thing.

And that's not the same with Buffy's. So this whole stupid comic version NOW tells me that her SOURCE of ANGST of wanting NORMAL life is NOT because of being "FORCED" to do Slayer duties, but actually FAILING to do NORMAL things as what other NORMAL girls do at her age?! That's bullsh*it, AGAIN! WHY?

Well, Buffy went to High School. That's Normal. She dated boys, (not just Angel) and that's Normal. She got bullied by more popular girls. That's Normal. She got BEST Friends. That's Normal. She got a very patient TRAINER in the form of Giles. That's Normal. She got a WONDERFUL parent, in the form of her Mother. That's SO normal. She got to compete in a beauty contest and even fought her way to be the "homecoming" queen and battled the veteran vain queen-bee H.S. Cordy, That's Normal. She got her first H.S. love. That's Normal.

So what's NOT Normal to Buffy? She got to fight demons and vampires at night while other girls are sleeping soundly in their beds or having wild parties with their friends. She was trained to use KILLING weapons, instead of using academic books or hair brush or mirror for make up, or lipsticks or anything that normal girls would want to use. AND THE WORST OF ALL, she got to "KILL" her "H.S. sweetheart" and sent him to hell dimension where he SUFFERED hundreds of years, to something BOTH of them were INNOCENT of seeing it happen, just so SHE COULD SAVE THE WORLD. And those were NOT Normal because she is THE SLAYER.

So what's the F@ck that the comics wanted me to believe that Buffy HAS EMBRACED her slayer job, because SHE FINALLY ACCEPTED that's THE NORMAL life for her?! Well, apparently, what she had been COMPLAINING about is not really "of becoming" Normal, but rather her WANTING to be a QUEEN with POWER, BEAUTY and MONEY.

SO that's the FEMALE EMPOWERMENT that Joss and this stupid comic version wanted to TELL? Okay...but then again, Cordelia was once like that. But then Joss killed her off and made sure she wont BE PHYSICALLY resurrected again in darkhorse comic versions. And also, there are people who IS STILL HATING on Cordelia because they think SHE IS VAIN, and her "redemption" arc in Angel was just lame plot to MAKE her LOOK like Buffy.

But as I see it, this comic versions MAKES Buffy BE LIKE Cordelia. They want me to believe that they are EMPOWERING Buffy by making her "embrace" a job she didn't want but she ENDED up doing so, because she realizes that BEING A SLAYER is what IS Normal to her. May I remind Joss and his stupid comic minions, that they also made CORDELIA embraced something SHE DID NOT WANT, FORCING her TO HAVE VISIONS that her NORMAL HUMAN body could NOT handle, then FORCING a "goddess" INTO her body to handle her powers...then KILLING her because APPARENTLY any Vision holder ARE MEANT to die, but TPTB became "merciful" that they let USED her LAST BREATH to bring Angel BACK into his RIGHT PATH!

But did ANY of the stupid comic writers or even Joss for that matter, GIVE RECOGNITION to Cordelia that she IS empowered? Did they ever admit that Cordelia was MORE empowered than Buffy? Of course NOT. And that's despite the fact that Cordelia was THE ONLY human character (aside from Kendra) in early seasons, WHO EMBRACED herself as HERSELF, who was NOT apologizing for things she says as the TRUTH. And yet anti-Cordy believes she's just this vain rich brat who SHOULD BE BETTER to remain "vain", instead of being a "heroine" that she was in Ats. And then I come back to ever CONFUSING anti-Cordy hate sentiments that she is just Buffy 2.0 and her REFORMATION on Ats was something so HARD to accept, while it's EASY for them to believe that Spuke is INHERENTLY a good guy; thus, he CAN be a SAINT because of his "love" for Buffy. But Cordy who DID the things she did in Ats, who has NEVER said she was doing it out of "love" for anyone else, was treated as LESSER character than Spuke. Not to mention the fact, that Cordy is A FULL Blooded Human, with a soul, when she did HEROIC things in Ats as compared to a soulless spuke of S5-S6 when he did "good things" for his "love" of Buffy. Rolling Eyes

SO i go back with Buffy becoming a cop while also maintaining her power as Slayer. A slayer and a cop. Both have some sort of "authoritarian" functions. TBH, I never expected that would be a SYMBOL of female empowerment for Buffy, MAINLY because I do believe she DOES NOT want either of it. So Being a slayer as "FOREVER" attached for Buffy, I can accept that, if that's what the comic versions wanted to convey to us. THE SLAYER, that's Buffy's title. And I agree that Title Should REMAIN to Buffy FOREVER and EVER. But I'm pertaining about THE FUNCTIONS of a Slayer?! Killing demons, vampires and monsters DO NOT HOLD ANY SIGNIFICANCE in the comic versions the moment the comic writers became CONFUSED of using them as "reality" as against METAPHORS. So again I asked, WHAT'S THE POINT OF BECOMING A SLAYER IF BUFFY CAN BE A COP?! I get that being a cop for Buffy is a "PAYING" job so that the stupid comic writers would NOT be guilty of the accusations we had of them of MAKING Buffy a PHYSICALLY POWERFUL woman BUT FINANCIALLY POOR. But really, what is like being a SLAYER for Buffy, or for NEW slayers, if Buffy can STILL catch "bad guys" in her police uniform. What? so they could have POWER that they DID NOT ASk to have? so they could HAVE something to WHINE and TO angst over in their TEEN life? What for, IF their UNIVERSE would MAKE THEM EVENTUALLY EMBRACED themselves as slayers! Just like Kendra ACCEPTED her duty as a slayer and even taught Buffy that "slaying" is NOT just a job, it's part of WHO SHE IS. So fast forward Season 7, and the Slayer's power is DISTRIBUTED and SHARED to every girl in the world, so THEY COULD LEARN HOW TO FIGHT and BE EMPOWERED. That's a VERY POWERFUL concept that many Joss whedons fans HAILED as BEST METAPHOR of female empowerment of Btvs....

I agree....until I realize, what's THE USE OF SLAYER'S POWER, if BATTLING DEMONS was just merely DONE as a form of a NORMAL JOB? Why slayer's power is ONLY for women and NOT for EVERY PEOPLE, regardless of gender, if the intention is TO GIVE POWER to all who NEEDS it?

So...Slaying is NORMAL to Buffy, but her WANTING to be with Angel and have NORMAL life with him, is SOMETHING LIKE A FANTASY for Buffy, and the VERY REASON why joss and stupid comic minions WOULD NOT EVER dare write or show ANY certainty that Buffy and Angel ARE ACTUALLY TOGETHER again more than they did to B/S because, BANGEL WILL REMAIN AS FANTASY as compared to B/S that is "REALITY"? Is that what the comic versions is trying to tell me?

Again, Pakshet to joss and his stupid comic minions.


Sybil, I'm not yet done of this post. I will still have something to add, but I'll do it later. promise. Thanks for the hug, and for pointing out a "Star wars" logic to me that sadness becomes fear and fear would lead to hate. Yeah, I have to say thank you for pointing it to me.

TBC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 274

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<continuation>

Quote:
Also! Spike was to be this ‘poet” and a bad one who also was a “truth teller” which is exactly how a real poet feels, and is why people are driven (mad) to find the truth within the words that actually achieve “true poetry.” The fact every poet FAILS is actually the IMMORTAL struggle that truly defines the human condition. That is why Spike did not get ‘what he was’ when he got his soul: A HUMAN MORTAL BEING. Don’t forget that Spike NEVER had been a vampire with a soul, so the whole “solution” for Spike’s “redemption” story never made “sense.”

The fact they made Spike “still” at the end of season seven, while Buffy “danced over death” is exactly why Angel cannot be still, as he was as a vampire with a soul, but must be ‘opposite’ aka “active.” THAT ending in season seven when the writers “killed” Spike to show his version of ‘shanshu’—achieving his mortality/death, is why they decided to make BUFFY so still at the end of the comics. She can’t be, so that isn’t the end of the story: it is STASIS.

The problem is that I simply don’t care that they will never “fix” this story because they continually choose these ‘left turns’ away from the “obvious” TRUTH of their own story, I simply can’t invest in more lies that belittle the very power of “story” in the very reasons people tell them! It is weak, it is stupid, it requires OOC trials and errors, and it is paralyzingly BORING. It finally insults the hearts and minds of the audience.


I always believe that spuke was just really for comic relief and a buffoon that thinks "He's good" but in actuality HE IS REALLY BAD, as in the laughable bad one. Remember that he became a "series regular" along with Anya, TO REPLACE the VOID that Cordelia left when she went to LA, which was a character that used SARCASM & CYNICISM in a "funny way". I short, Joss needed to put "anti-hero" who will ALWAYS MAKE RAIN ON THE PARADE of the heroes. A character that is NEITHER an enemy nor a friend. An Ally perhaps, who is not always IN AGREEMENT with the hero. That's the void that Cordy left that Joss wanted Spuke and Anya to fill up. They made Anya's character as this "crazy in love" with Xander, probably just to "mimic" the Cordy/Xander pairing, only the difference was that Cordy HELD her pride and NEVER really allowed herself to "submit" fully to Xander's appeal. Which I think makes Cordy an even GREATER character than Anya was. So Spuke was the "only" one left that would CARRY ON the "anti-hero" or the "anti-Buffy" sarcasms & cynicism. The problem began when Joss, Noxon and Espenson started to get this crazy "AFFECTION" and "INFATUATION" to Spuke's character that they DEVELOPED the interactions between Spuke & Buffy into SEXUAL tension, which is a RE-HASH version of Cordy/Xander tension which is called "The Cat vs Dog bickering" or "the old-married couple quarrel". In short the kind of "cute tension" we see in cliche romcom flicks. And that was where the beginning of "makes-no-sense" plot really happened, in my opinion😒

I think I already stated before how I viewed his character, and I still hold the same opinion. I NEVER think he IS REALLY a truth-teller or the "insightful" one as many think he is. He said things he thinks was "THE TRUTH" which I don't agree with. What he had was only STRONG opinion, but NEVER the truth. The classic "line" he told BAngel that "you can't be friends, you'll never be friends", well, I think I was the only one who disagreed with that line that many Bangel fans were grateful to Spuke for speaking it. I always think that Spuke's Bangel speech was really pertaining to Spuke/Drusilla and Spuke just said it to Bangel because he thought that Bangel's love is "THE SAME" of how he viewed him and Dru. I NEVER even once BELIEVED that Spuke had FULL INSIGHTS about REAL LOVE at that time, more than I think Angel had, given the fact that Angel ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED it with Buffy, and that was THE REAL LOVE which is NOT the same of how Spuke viewed the "love" that he and Dru shared. His speech may "sound" poetic, but not necessarily THE TRUTH. The love that Spuke gave about BAngel was REALLY abusive. Even SMG, when she was asked in a btvs guessing game, about to whom was that speech pertained to, she was dumbfounded and couldn't even remember about those lines and who said it. She first guessed it was about Cordy/Xander, but then of course she was told it was WRONG. And then she laughed and guessed again, this time she thought it was Buffy/Spuke. And when it was revealed that it was Spuke who said those lines to Buffy/Angel, SMG just had an unbelieving look on her face as if saying "WTF???". All I could think about when I saw the vid was, "yeah, SMG, I'm with you. I also feel the same way".

He was a bad poet but he feels he wasn't so. He used his poetry in order to impress girls, but sadly, they didn't like him nor his poems. I think that one's of the reasons why Spukey "got" his fans & sympathizers, because his REJECTIONS and FAILURES (mostly in lovelife) are humanly relatable; thus, they think Spuke was this "POOR UNLOVED "SWEET" BOY" (hopeless romantic) and an UNDERDOG CHALLENGER (the loser) that made his fans WANTED to see him ON TOP, as how everyone at the bottom strive for in REAL life.. They want to see Spuke TRIUMPHS and WINS it all, because they think that Spuke really "SUFFERED" a lot, even at the hands of THE HERO, Buffy, whom they THINK was "THE ABUSER" in the B/S stuffs happened in Btvs Season 6. I'm not sure if Noxon, Espenson or even Whedon saw the GRAVITY of what they did of making Spuke the "hopeless romantic" or "the victim" that made his fans AGGRESSIVELY DEMANDING of Spuke's VICTORIOUS COMEBACK. During S6 airing, Noxon and Espenson WERE SO VOCAL of their love of everything Spukey and B/S which made them really well loved by B/S fanbase. Whedon, not much back then, probably because he was busy doing his new toy, Firefly. But Noxon and Espenson, the feminist writers of BTVS, were so deeply IN-LOVE with Spuke, making interviews of how much Spuke was DESERVING of Buffy's affection and so and so forth. If I remember it correctly, Noxon CONFIRMED that Spuke REALLY went for his soul, amidst the denial from Bangel fanbase then that Spuke did NOT ask for his soul because there was NO DEFINITIVE statement from Spuke that he really WANTED his soul be back. But it was Noxon who SHUT DOWN Bangel's criticism of Spuke's efforts of "soul-searching". Which ONLY added to the fact that Noxon, Espenson upon guidance of Whedon, whose CANON REPRESENTATION was TPTB, REALLY wanted Spuke to have his soul back, MAKING NO ROOM FOR QUESTIONS from any fans that Spuke NEVER REALLY ASKED FOR HIS SOUL.

And that's the point where the "makes-no-sense" plot THICKENS and EVERYTHING slowly started going downhill for Bangel fanbase, which in opposite for B/S, as their fanbase became STRONG & LOUDER and really became MORE DEMANDING of giving B/S the pedestal they think they "DESERVE".

But yeah, no matter what confirmation Noxon said about B/S, I agree, that Spuke's ensoulment REALLY made NO sense in the universe that Joss wanted to show. IT DOES NOT FIT. Hence, I call it an ANOMALY. It's just so sad that in order for Joss to "fix" such anomaly, he prefers to sacrifice Angel's story. Because, even though Joss' universe ALLOWED two vamps with a soul to CO-EXISTS, the juxtaposition of Angel and Spuke ensoulment really contradicted each other's story and only resulted to more CONFUSING presentation of "soul". In order for Angel's ensoulment to stand as THE TRUTH, Spuke's ensoulment SHOULD have been invalidated. Sadly for Angel fans, Joss is spukey lover and WILL NEVER EVER give up the "NOBLE" concept of "SPUKE GOT HIS SOUL FOR BUFFY", because for him it sounded MORE "poetic" and "romantic" than the one "WHO WAS CURSED OF A SOUL".

And joss thinks he is a "hopeless romantic woke bae" that made him so "IRRESISTIBLE" to women. What.a.pakshet!

So about buffy being in "STASIS"...do you think sybil, that this stupid comic version achieved that or DELIBERATELY made Buffy's story like that? When you say "stasis", do you mean "stable"? Or just simply "UN-MOVING".
It's an "OPEN-ENDING". No finality. It's just for me, THE LAMEST attempt of trying to be "controversial". LAMEST attempt to CONTINUE the ever-lasting annoying shipper debate.the LAMEST attempt to encourage fanfic writers to write MORE fanfic stories, as if stories from this stupid comic versions IS WORTH MAKING FANFICS for, or even reading it? A fanfic that is made out of fanfic?! Hah! Again, let the IGNORANTS enjoy FICTION.

Which I refuse to be. And yes, sybil, I think I invested MORE THAN enough TIME, MONEY and WORDS for this franchise. And I know, I said this few years back when stupid Gage were proud and loud ANNOUNCING the B/S lovefest in S10. The moment they allowed B/S "to happen" as this "mature and real love" was THE MOMENT they DESTROYED AND RUINED any hint of CREDIBILITY of Buffy's story. I didn't see ANY ART from it. I didn't see ANY BEAUTY from it. IT WAS JUST PLAIN DISGUSTING !!!

I do remember heated discussions, different theories and "words of encouragement" from Bangel fans who say "BE POSITIVE" of this stupid comic version. And I do remember being this "DARKSIDE OF THE FORCE", who was deemed The Pessimist. I accepted it. It was sad to argue with fellow Bangel fans whom I thought could be allies. It's sad, but I can't force them to with side me, if they really don't agree with me. And that's actually OK.

But I knew there was SOMETHING to be sad & feared at that moment. And yes, when EVERYTHING is "finished" in darkhorse comics, I can say those sadness and fears really turned into hate. I'm angry and I'm not ashamed of it.

Bangel fans celebrated that B/S broke up, "making room" for Bangel "to happen again". And then they announced "THE END".....Again, WHAT.A.PAKSHET.

It's one of the possibilities I imagined Joss and his stupid comic minions would do. And now that they did, all I could feel is HATE and RELIEF. Hate that as BAngel I had to witness how Joss and these stupid comic writers DESTROYED everything I love about Bangel, Buffy and Angel. But also, RELIEF, because, THEY STOPPED TORTURING Bangel.

But the damage has been done. As a Bangel fan, I said this before and I say this again. THERE'S NOTHING VICTORIOUS ABOUT THIS "ENDING", and I don't feel any WINNING moment, at all. If you are Bangel fan and is HAPPY about this, then you must SWALLOW EVERYTHING this story TOLD you, even the ones that happened to Angel.

And as Angel fan, NO, I REFUSE TO SWALLOW EVERYTHING these stupid comic writers DID to Angel. Yes even if I had to invalidate that Bangel sex on S8.

To Buffy... well, Buffy, I think you're GONNA live forever and you already have that IMMORTAL status. But sorry, no, I DON'T WANT TO BE "YOU", the kind of "YOU" this stupid comic writers wrote of you. I want the H.S. YOU, the high-school Buffy who B/S fans considered as "IMMATURE" by falling in-love with Angel, yet the high-school Buffy who wants to BE REVIVED by most people.

that's it for now. Sorry sybil and to everyone I annoyed by my anger. Sorry, because no matter HOW MUCH HATE I show thru enlarged letters and bold words, there's the UNDERLYING sadness, that there is nothing MORE I can give for this franchise, but angry words. I could NOT even make myself SUPPORT anything about it especially of what they called "continuation". I'm basically powerless on how joss or other future (stupid) comic writers will RE-TELL Buffy and Angel stories. I am not even sure if Angel is STILL considered as MAJOR character and EQUALLY lead as Buffy. Ats is NOT even given MAJOR shout outs anymore. Most newbies I saw online only knows Angel as Buffy's ex, "the boring one with the bad irish accent". And it made feel sad. And I really fear that all my invested efforts back in the days ARE for NOTHING.

So yeah, I guess, with all the hate I got for this franchise, what's really I feel is just sad nostalgia. And thus, sybil, thanks for the HUGS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
comic fan
Oracle


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1693

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://comicbook.com/comics/2018/11/05/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-reboot-spike-drusilla/

'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' #2 Cover Reveals Return of Fan Favorite Villains

By Jamie Lovett - November 5, 2018

Two fan-favorite big bads are returning to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

ComicBook.com can exclusively reveal Matthew Taylor’s cover to the second issue of BOOM! Studios’ Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. The cover shows Buffy with the vampire Drusilla hovering over her shoulder.

ComicBook.com can also confirm that the issue will also introduce Drusilla’s twisted lover Spike into the BOOM! Studios Buffy continuity. Drusilla will be introduced into the series as the Mistress, a title she has taken for herself, with Spike at her side. They quickly turn their attention towards the Slayer, who is still fresh and unwilling to learn from her Watcher.



This is the Buffy Summers you know – but her world is just a little bit different, which is why we’re so excited to have Matthew Taylor introduce Drusilla as The Mistress!” said Jeanine Schaefer, executive editor at BOOM! Studios. “If you were a fan of Drusilla and Spike – c’mon, who wasn’t? – then you’re in for a treat as they come to Sunnydale with much different intentions than you’ve ever seen before. And maybe some tortured poetry as well, emphasis on the tortured part.”

Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2 will also ship with variants from Kevin Wada (She-Hulk), Celia Lowenthal (Over The Garden Wall: Hollow Town), and Audrey Mok (Archie).

BOOM! Studios’ Buffy the Vampire Slayer is written by Eisner Award-nominated writer Jordie Bellaire (Redlands) with art from Russ Manning award-winning artist Dan Mora (Klaus, Saban’s Go Go Power Rangers). Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator Joss Whedon is on board as a story consultant.

“Buffy has brought my life so much joy and to be part of that now is ridiculously overwhelming on many levels,” Bellaire said in a statement when her involvement was announced. “My very favorite aspect of Buffy is how we have a wide group of characters that love each other, hurt each other and sometimes, they even kill each other. I can’t wait to dabble within that universe to find new stories, explore older ones and forever maintain the theme of self-discovery and growing up, whatever that means.”

“It’s an exciting opportunity to be part of reimagining and redesigning the world of Buffy for a modern era while also honoring its exciting history,” Mora said. “The series offers a unique mix of horror, action and the experience of being a teenager where it feels like the world is ending – and in this case, it might!”

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is the second major Joss Whedon property being relaunched in comics at BOOM! Studios. The first issue of the new Firefly series arrives in stores on November 14th.

What do you think of Taylor’s cover to Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2? Are you excited to see Drusilla and Spike? Let us know in the comments!

Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2 goes on sale February 13, 2019.

https://www.cbr.com/exclusive-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-2-kevin-wada-willow-cover/

EXCLUSIVE: Kevin Wada's Buffy the Vampire Slayer Cover Reintroduces Willow

by Tim Adams
– on Nov 06, 2018

BOOM! Studios and 20th Century Fox will relaunch Buffy the Vampire Slayer in 2019 by writer Jordie Bellaire (Redlands), artist Dan Mora (Klaus, Saban’s Go Go Power Rangers) and series creator and story consultant Joss Whedon (Firefly, Marvel's The Avengers). A variant cover by artist Kevin Wada (She-Hulk) for the second issue puts the spotlight on fan-favorite character Willow Rosenberg.

Wada's variant cover for Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2 features the redheaded Willow looking herself over in a mirror as she prepares for school. Played by Alyson Hannigan in the original Emmy and Golden Globe-nominated series, Willow sports a jean jacket with multiple pins stuck to its left and right sides. Issue #2's main cover will be provided by Mondo illustrator Matthew Taylor, with additional covers by Celia Lowenthal (Over The Garden Wall: Hollow Town), Ryan Inzana (Ichiro) and Audrey Mok (Archie).

Willow is one of the most important characters in pop culture history, and I’m thrilled that Jordie and Dan are able to reimagine her as a modern teenager,” Executive Editor Jeanine Schaefer said in a statement. “Kevin perfectly captures the essence of Willow – her joy, humor and warmth – in a stunning new cover spotlighting everyone’s favorite teenage witch.”



Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2, by Jordie Bellaire, Dan Mora and Joss Whedon, arrives Wednesday, February 13 from BOOM! Studios.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 869

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was aware that Noxon was the show runner and “liking Spike” over liking the actual story laid down is why so many Spuffy fans really don’t care about Buffy, but only whatever Spike wants/gets. Agreed, the story laid down, I think, in Joss’s mind made B/A a static relationship in which they would love each other most, but would be denied each other always. It was difficult to create excruciating pain without actually having to deal with ‘the curse’ to enable these two to actually confront any kinds of other issues that couples may face, as two individuals developing both their own independence and meeting the consequences of forming a family. That is why “stasis” as in ‘unmoving, unchanging’ is all B/A can ever be.

And in the theme of the thread, that Dru calls herself the “mistress” –suggesting she is married to “Jesus” yet is “cheating” by taking on Spike; (I don’t know if Dru actually completed her vows; do you recall?) OR Dru, being turned by Angelus, is both wife/childe to Angelus and in ‘turning Spike’ is cheating on Angelus? The thing is, I am not exactly sure Angelus DID turn Dru, as it would seem that Darla was also “right there” and very well could have been her sire. Maybe why Angelus considers Dru a sister with sexual privileges—very much the complex assigned to Angel/Angelus and continued even with the “real guy” Connor. ANYWAY, the theme of the thread. Ha ha: Because Spike is in the second issue of Boom, I know I don’t have to even invest a nickel in this franchise. That tore it for me. It is exactly as I feared and sliding Buffy into one bed after another, for a girl who is supposed to have some sense of self, particularly having seen “men” as a great source of betrayal and pain in her own life does not bode well to me.

I do appreciate that I thought one ‘got naked’ to express more nakedly one’s feelings for one’s partner(s) and was NOT merely the current paradigm for” mutual masturbation” and compiling a “how to” list or “booty book” for “moods.” Otherwise, Buffy is to be a bit shallow, if not guilty and even swarmy, or worse: a nympho maniac, and that sort of drive overshadowing the complexity of her entire place in the world, is merely another pathology needing treatment.

OR! Buffy and Angel are merely ‘first love’ and is SUPPOSED to be a love affair that is “too immature” to last, too unbalanced to work, and any other failure one would hurl at it. That also makes Buffy ‘just another girl’ and Angel merely a ‘stick figure’ with no future and thus, NONE of this story will ever be EPIC.

I can’t even begin to discuss the story of Cordelia because the fact is, how much hinges on her, “the dark sister” for Angel, not to mention the ‘true love’ for the “ORPHEUS” figure of Xander, means her leaving is “the beginning of the end” for both series. And it is also when they concocted Dawn. THAT, not just Spike’s “growing a soul” story line, ended BTVS. It also drove the creation of Connor and that means NONE OF THESE PEOPLE are “whole persons;” they are avatars on a psychological landscape. Except Xander, of course.(Joss).

The above is not the story I thought was being developed; they could have ‘FIXED’ the story, all the way to the bloody end, but chose NOT to and, for me, “starting over’ in the reboot with the biggest flaws already looming in even changing DRU, as merely a second class person within the vampire family is ridiculous. Worse, she is merely ‘damaged goods/crazy and NOT the voice of “timeless time” within the narrative. So, there is no hope or any point in following “teen Buffy” in this reboot of comics; let alone on TV when the bones of the thing out of ‘one in the world’ and in THIS world of “connectivity” that is a device of ‘isolation’ and ‘pain’ we all know regarding social media, bullying, et al, with “just folk” monsters running around and ‘presto’ magic, is mostly vomitous. You have to understand, that much of the original BTVS shows the pagan roots of Wiccan prayers, chapter and verse, including their marriage. I can’t give that ‘spiritual aspect’ up, not to mention, Angel’s ‘father/Father’ problems, beside the Oedipal clearly expressed with Dru, for example, and repeated ad nauseum (Dru, Cordy, Fred on ATS.

They want the usual ‘soap’ and every single growing up story lately being shown that are all like it; and that is trash, aka “pulp fiction,” shallow, of no consequence aka BAD literature and boring as hell to me—even when I was the one doing the growing up. Buffy and Angel spoke to the nature of a “real” ‘how to’ for the complexities of passion/control; shared independence, character development, CONSEQUENCES, going THROUGH real problems by facing them and the costs of not facing them called LEARNING.

HUGS!
sybil
P.S. I think I can defend my view of the story that is more than 'I want Buffy and Angel' to end up together, but I can't find anyway to defend most of the Spuffy narrative that isn't the failure of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
comic fan
Oracle


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1693

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11/08/boom-new-slayer-every-issue-buffy/

Boom Debuts a New Vampire Slayer From History With Every Buffy Comic

Posted by Rich Johnston November 8, 2018

Something interesting is going on with the variant covers to the upcoming Buffy The Vampire Slayer comic from Boom Studios. And a few little birdies – or maybe Demon Birdies in this case – have tipped Bleeding Cool off to what’s going on with the new series

The first sign of something secretive came during the announcement of the series at NYCC. The variant cover by Royal Dunlap featured an unidentified someone who fans speculated could be Kendra or perhaps the rumored black slayer character in the upcoming Buffy reboot TV series. No one from BOOM! Studios commented about it and we all know they’ll send out a press release to announce they’ll send out a press release.

Then we saw this cover by Celia Lowenthal to the second issue and it became clearer that there was something else going on here


/
Celia Lowenthal @celia_lowenthal

got the okay to post my variant cover for BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER #2 from @boomstudios! thanks @ghgronen and @J9Schaefer, this was super fun !!!



Well, here’s what we’ve learned: every issue of Buffy The Vampire Slayer will have a variant cover by a different artist that features the debut of all new Slayer from times past. So not only will these variants probably already be fetching a higher price because they’re, well, variants but now those covers will be first appearances of major new characters in Joss Whedon’s biggest pop culture creation.

The last time I remember a publisher doing this was the first appearance of Gwenpool on the cover of Deadpool’s Secret Secret Wars #2. And we know how well that one continues to sell to this day.

Expect to see these covers in high demand from the die-hard Buffy fans and some of those speculators out there. And for this program to continue through 2019, with these Slayers likely making their debut in the comics pretty soon as well.

Boom’s last major addition to pop culture mythology was Lord Drakkon in Power Rangers. He’s gone on to be featured in a short film, video games, action figures and more. His first appearance is still holding pretty solid resale value too.

And I’m guessing that’s not the last surprise Boom has in store for this series after the success of their Firefly launch…which I’m hearing may get a second printing before it even hits stands.

And here’s the Buffy #1 cover by Royal Dunlap…

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yMzkvODg2L29yaWdpbmFsL0J1ZmZ5XzAwMV9DX01haW5fMDAzLmpwZz8xNTQwMjIzNDcy


ETA

Another Buffy # 2 cover

http://www.comicon.com/2018/11/09/ready-to-rumble-audrey-mok-covers-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-2/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comic fan, do you think Angel will show up for sure in the Boom reboot? I'm slightly nervous that they're going to cut him out entirely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
comic fan
Oracle


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1693

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grace Newman wrote:
comic fan, do you think Angel will show up for sure in the Boom reboot? I'm slightly nervous that they're going to cut him out entirely.


I think he will.Maybe not in the first issue but in the first arc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comic fan wrote:
I think he will.Maybe not in the first issue but in the first arc.


OK, good! I feel like it would be hard to resist bringing him in, so hopefully they will.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
comic fan
Oracle


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1693

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EXCLUSIVE: Oz Debuts on Buffy the Vampire Slayer 'Graduation Day' Cover

Ryan Inzana's variant cover for Buffy the Vampire Slayer #2 homages the "Graduation Day" episode with Buffy, Willow and Oz.

https://www.cbr.com/exclusive-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-oz-graduation-day-cover/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> Comics Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group