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Awakening Episode Season 4
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ital_gal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm. actually i kinda thought he looked kinda good in the episodes after Angel comes back. Season 5 for me is the one where he really bulked up.. but I think he was also having knee problems at the time right?
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Kairos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome theory, PB/AF! (What, I can't experiment with acronyms?) The only thing that catches me is why we would see Cordy while Angel was seeing Buffy. I can't quite believe that the mystic would know or think that there was something between them to capitalize on, since the rest of the dream was so tailored to Angel's real desires. Maybe there was a whole missing scene to it in which Buffy shows up in LA with news about how she's found a way around his curse if she has a Cordy-glamour on her. Smile

mayfever wrote:
To be honest, what bothers me most about the ep is how FAT DB has become. For some reason I never notice it as much until then, but they can't even use a full shot of his upper body after he sheds the shirt!! Whereas on BtVS and Bones they'll welcome any excuse to show him shirtless.


No kidding. That was probably the blandest and unsexiest sex scene that DB has ever done. Cordy/Angel never holds a candle to B/A, but even in "Waiting in the Wings" they were hotter than they were in "Awakening".
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Ares
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, (and I did hate the fact that he lost some of his looks when he put on weight, thank goodness he lost the weight and regained his gorgeousness) DB had a very hard time with his knee. It was an old football injury and he must have been on painkillers, maybe pregnisone (which makes a person put on weight, I know my husband did when he was on them for 6 months) for a while. In Season 5 of Angel he could hardly walk, and then he had surgery, which is why we saw Angel sitting a lot, plus in his fights as Angel, he was on the ground quite a bit. He was limping in Soul Purpose and he was on his bed mostly, in that episode. I saw somewhere where he was on crutches between takes. To me, that says a lot when an actor turns up to the set, even when they are in pain.

I saw an interview where DB said that he was no longer able to work out and exercise (in season 5). After his surgery and when he could go back to getting fit again, he changed his personal trainer and diet and regained back the body we all drool after.
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elle
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok..i guess i'm the only one here who likes this episode. I dont know, maybe after I found out about buffy's sexcapades w/ other guys, I want Angel to move on with other girls, just to see if Buffy would get jealous.
Quote:
, I can get into a whole other aspect of the entire sex scene with Cordelia, but it may be a bit of a B/A fantasy

..but I agree with that comment, somehow. I agree with the similarities of the CA scene with some of the BA scene, particularly with the one when they were kissing and Cordy stopped but Angel said, "just kiss me"...reminds me of BA during Surprise.
After rewatching this epi for a lot of times, I just realized that Angel's reaction would be the same if the girl in the fantasy is Buffy. All the elements of "perfect happiness" were in that episode. Maybe, the girl shouldn't have been cordy...but she was the only one available. (probably because of the network's limitation and no crossover rule during that time, except for willow-faith episode)
..and as to DB's weight, it didn't matter to me when I first watched it. But after watching episodes in random, plus some of his epi in Buffy, I was bothered by his bulkiness in the later episodes. Most of the anti-DBs used his weight to bash him personally. They had no idea that he was in pain during that time Mad ...but, thank God, he's working out now. He looks better now than before Smile
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mayfever
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess you guys all know that I'm not anti DB Very Happy

(In fact, I haven't shared this before, but do you wanna know what my good (male) friend gave me for my birthday? A DB calendar with 12 head-only portraits, a pair of scissors and a paper bag and a card saying "for when your dry spell ends").

I'll love DB even if he's covered in layers of puppy fat. In fact, the more of him the better Very Happy
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daydreamerz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if anyone had seen this interview with David Fury where he discusses the "Buffy" slip in Awakening.

Buffyfest†: You wrote "Awakening", which ends on a scene of Angel making love to Cordelia (with his eyes closed the entire time). As he loses his soul he cries out "Buffy†!" Some fans concluded he was actually imagining he was with her, while others believe he was saying it simply out of fear or that you were just echoing "Surprise". What was your actual intention†?

DF†: Wow... That was, like, fifty years ago, so itís difficult to remember. Iím gonna go with answer B. Or C. I think it was more of a sense memory thing, rather than imagining he was with Buffy
.

Even though I don't really think the Angel imagining he was with Buffy was a realistic theory considering it was his dream and if he wanted to imagine Buffy thats who it would have been.
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bonnaleah
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had seen this interview with David Fury where he discusses the "Buffy" slip in Awakening.

Buffyfest : You wrote "Awakening", which ends on a scene of Angel making love to Cordelia (with his eyes closed the entire time). As he loses his soul he cries out "Buffy !" Some fans concluded he was actually imagining he was with her, while others believe he was saying it simply out of fear or that you were just echoing "Surprise". What was your actual intention ?

DF : Wow... That was, like, fifty years ago, so itís difficult to remember. Iím gonna go with answer B. Or C. I think it was more of a sense memory thing, rather than imagining he was with Buffy.



I think Fury said something different in an interview closer to the air date for "Awakening", but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. The question and answer you quoted was from a Jan 2009 interview.....6 years after "Awakening aired. Fury joked that it had been like 50 years, and it probably did feel that long to him, because in those 6 years he had been the executive producer and writer for "Lost"...and then became the executive producer and writer for "24". Two series with multiple characters and plotlines....I bet he couldn't answer a question about why any of those characters did or said something 6 years later either....I don't think the writers have every script of every episode memorized the way we do, lol. And he did admit that he was basically guessing. Too much time had passed and too many other characters were swirling around in his brain to remember the particulars of the episode.

David Boreanaz on the other hand, a company man and true mouthpiece for whatever storyline they had going, was asked the same question in the same year the episode aired...2003.

Q: "Your official verdict: What did it mean that Angel said Buffy's name during dream sex with Cordy?"

DB: "I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously. So, when that occurred, it was a testament to his feelings. It's not the sex that makes him happy; it's the feeling. He can have sex, but he can't be truly happy." Eonline chat 2003



As the actor, with script in hand, I gotta give David credit for understanding the scene he is acting. And like I said, he doesn't have to search his mind for the answer because it's current...it's in the midst of S4.


Quote:
Even though I don't really think the Angel imagining he was with Buffy was a realistic theory considering it was his dream and if he wanted to imagine Buffy thats who it would have been.


I'm not so sure. It looked like Angel was dreaming but the shaman said it was a vision.

WO-PANG: The vision becomes reality. It is done.

Then too the only way he could have imagined sex with Buffy is if SMG had appeared in the episode...apparently that wasn't possible....so they did the next best thing. You gotta ask yourself why the writers put that in the episode to begin with if we weren't supposed to think that Angel was thinking about Buffy. What other purpose does it serve? It wasn't needed to show us that Angel had lost his soul because the scene immediately cut to the shaman saying it was done and then to Angelus in the cage with the maniacal laughter.

I still remember my excitement when Angel said Buffy's name...I had read spoilers for the episode and knew there was going to be Angel/Cordy sex....to say I was upset would be putting it mildly...and then the most wonderful thing happened...the sex took place in either a dream or a vision and wasn't even real...and it was topped off by Angel saying Buffy's name. Halleluiah !
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janas
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say that name, in that moment, has surely had a profound meaning and was certainly not put there by chance. I see no other reason than to show us that for Angel, the road to perfect happiness is Buffy. If you take away this, that scene becomes meaningless. Angel has not lost his soul with Cordelia, because Angel and Cordelia they were not really there at that time. Angel was chained inside a cage and has not had sex with her. Everything we saw was just an illusion. It was not even a dream (the result of unconscious wishes of Angel), was a vision manipulated from outside with the magic.

"Cordelia" has certainly played an active role in bringing back Angelus, but not through perfect happiness. She has belittled Angel and his intelligence, she made sure to weaken it and make him feel guilty, thus bringing it to decide to bring back Angelus.

Quote:
Cordelia: I just came to say that I'm on your side. Angelus is the jumbo family-sized bad of bad ideas. He'd be a danger to all of us. You made the right call. Wesley, the others...they don't get it.
Angel: But you do.
Cordelia: Well, if I didn't when Angelus was loose and killing in Sunnydale, then reliving his past horrors in virtual wide-screen sense surround during my tenure in floatyville pretty much makes me an expert.
Angel: Right. Do youó Do you think Connor's right, that I'm being used by the Beast without even knowing?
Cordelia: (quickly) No.
Angel: Are you just saying that?
Cordelia: Yes. I don't know, Angel. It's possible.
Angel: Well, if I am, then I'm already a danger to you, all of you.
Cordelia: Well, not like Angelus would be. I mean, he'sóhe's smart.
Angel: Excuse me?
Cordelia: Well, you know what I mean...
Angel: You're saying Angelus is smarter than me.
Cordelia: No, I mean....you're smart. He's justó
Angel: Ingenious.
Cordelia: But in that twisted, sadistic, ruthless kind of way.
Angel: Like the Beast.
Cordelia: Yes. Exactly. They think alike, always a step or two ahead of us. I mean, what is it about evil that jacks up the I.Q. points? It's like whenever...
(notices Angel's resolute face) What? (Angel stands, walks back into the building) Angel.
(inside)
Angel: We're going to need a cage.


The vision of Angel has shown us a Cordelia lot different. This was an idealization of Angel. The real Cordelia would have found the interaction very melodramatic. The writers wanted to make it clear that Cordelia could not give perfect happiness to Angel. The gypsy curse was specific. For Angel to lose his soul, he would have to experience a moment of perfect, pure happiness. And right now, happiness of any kind is in.. kind of short supply. If the writers had wanted to say to the contrary, what was the need to call the shaman? Cordelia was right there, it would have been much easier, right?

In five years of ATS, have always confirmed that the only woman that can making happy Angel, is Buffy. With Darla was perfect despair. With Cordelia was all unreal and the scene with Nina in Not Fade Away has confirmed that Buffy is the only one. With Nina the sex was real, but I think that Angel was very far from perfect happiness, and once again, the writers have wanted to remind us (in the episode that concludes the series) that in the heart of Angel, Buffy cannot be replaced.

EDIT

I was always very annoyed for the way was dealt Cordelia in this episode, though she is not among the my favorite characters, I was very sorry to see her reduced to this. if then I think Joss is cited as a great feminist, it irritates me even more. With Cordelia was anything but feminist.
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Kairos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The vision of Angel has shown us a Cordelia lot different. This was an idealization of Angel. The real Cordelia would have found the interaction very melodramatic.


Really good point here. If Angel really wanted Cordy, he would have wanted the real Cordy, not the version of her that his vision invented.
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cheryl
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonnaleah wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had seen this interview with David Fury where he discusses the "Buffy" slip in Awakening.

Buffyfest : You wrote "Awakening", which ends on a scene of Angel making love to Cordelia (with his eyes closed the entire time). As he loses his soul he cries out "Buffy !" Some fans concluded he was actually imagining he was with her, while others believe he was saying it simply out of fear or that you were just echoing "Surprise". What was your actual intention ?

DF : Wow... That was, like, fifty years ago, so itís difficult to remember. Iím gonna go with answer B. Or C. I think it was more of a sense memory thing, rather than imagining he was with Buffy.



I think Fury said something different in an interview closer to the air date for "Awakening", but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. The question and answer you quoted was from a Jan 2009 interview.....6 years after "Awakening aired. Fury joked that it had been like 50 years, and it probably did feel that long to him, because in those 6 years he had been the executive producer and writer for "Lost"...and then became the executive producer and writer for "24". Two series with multiple characters and plotlines....I bet he couldn't answer a question about why any of those characters did or said something 6 years later either....I don't think the writers have every script of every episode memorized the way we do, lol. And he did admit that he was basically guessing. Too much time had passed and too many other characters were swirling around in his brain to remember the particulars of the episode.

David Boreanaz on the other hand, a company man and true mouthpiece for whatever storyline they had going, was asked the same question in the same year the episode aired...2003.

Q: "Your official verdict: What did it mean that Angel said Buffy's name during dream sex with Cordy?"

DB: "I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously. So, when that occurred, it was a testament to his feelings. It's not the sex that makes him happy; it's the feeling. He can have sex, but he can't be truly happy." Eonline chat 2003



As the actor, with script in hand, I gotta give David credit for understanding the scene he is acting. And like I said, he doesn't have to search his mind for the answer because it's current...it's in the midst of S4.


Quote:
Even though I don't really think the Angel imagining he was with Buffy was a realistic theory considering it was his dream and if he wanted to imagine Buffy thats who it would have been.


I'm not so sure. It looked like Angel was dreaming but the shaman said it was a vision.

WO-PANG: The vision becomes reality. It is done.

Then too the only way he could have imagined sex with Buffy is if SMG had appeared in the episode...apparently that wasn't possible....so they did the next best thing. You gotta ask yourself why the writers put that in the episode to begin with if we weren't supposed to think that Angel was thinking about Buffy. What other purpose does it serve? It wasn't needed to show us that Angel had lost his soul because the scene immediately cut to the shaman saying it was done and then to Angelus in the cage with the maniacal laughter.

I still remember my excitement when Angel said Buffy's name...I had read spoilers for the episode and knew there was going to be Angel/Cordy sex....to say I was upset would be putting it mildly...and then the most wonderful thing happened...the sex took place in either a dream or a vision and wasn't even real...and it was topped off by Angel saying Buffy's name. Halleluiah !


I can still remember the excitement that I felt while watching this episode. I think that I rewatched the scene in question maybe 100 times. Good, good times.

The thing to remember about this particular moment in time for ATS and B/A is that the network had put some serious restrictions on Buffy references for ATS. An actual limit was placed on how many times anything from Sunnydale could be referenced, let alone Buffy herself. So the fact that Joss and co chose this particular moment to use one? BIG deal. REALLY big.

It still does my B/A heart some good to remember this episode. The things going on in the fandom at the time...it was a sweet sweet moment for B/A fans but then I suspect it was meant to be.

What I can remember really really appreciating is that Angel, under the influence of the Shaman who is trying to find the perfect happiness trigger to unleash Angelus uses every trick in the book to make Angel perfectly happy.

Gang works together in perfect harmony
Connor plays the good and loving son
Sex with a woman

Then we have it. BUFFY. Buffy is the final and successful element in bringing forth Angelus. Did Angel believe that he was with Buffy? Did the Shaman insert some memory of a happy time with Buffy into the vision? No clue and I don't really care. I guess this would be one of those times that B/A fans get to fill in the blanks of what happened. Main point is that she was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. Something brought back again the next time that Angel has sex, this time with Nina. It's still Buffy. It will always be Buffy. Heart
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daydreamerz
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonnaleah wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had seen this interview with David Fury where he discusses the "Buffy" slip in Awakening.

Buffyfest : You wrote "Awakening", which ends on a scene of Angel making love to Cordelia (with his eyes closed the entire time). As he loses his soul he cries out "Buffy !" Some fans concluded he was actually imagining he was with her, while others believe he was saying it simply out of fear or that you were just echoing "Surprise". What was your actual intention ?

DF : Wow... That was, like, fifty years ago, so itís difficult to remember. Iím gonna go with answer B. Or C. I think it was more of a sense memory thing, rather than imagining he was with Buffy.



I think Fury said something different in an interview closer to the air date for "Awakening", but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. The question and answer you quoted was from a Jan 2009 interview.....6 years after "Awakening aired. Fury joked that it had been like 50 years, and it probably did feel that long to him, because in those 6 years he had been the executive producer and writer for "Lost"...and then became the executive producer and writer for "24". Two series with multiple characters and plotlines....I bet he couldn't answer a question about why any of those characters did or said something 6 years later either....I don't think the writers have every script of every episode memorized the way we do, lol. And he did admit that he was basically guessing. Too much time had passed and too many other characters were swirling around in his brain to remember the particulars of the episode.

David Boreanaz on the other hand, a company man and true mouthpiece for whatever storyline they had going, was asked the same question in the same year the episode aired...2003.

Q: "Your official verdict: What did it mean that Angel said Buffy's name during dream sex with Cordy?"

DB: "I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously. So, when that occurred, it was a testament to his feelings. It's not the sex that makes him happy; it's the feeling. He can have sex, but he can't be truly happy." Eonline chat 2003



As the actor, with script in hand, I gotta give David credit for understanding the scene he is acting. And like I said, he doesn't have to search his mind for the answer because it's current...it's in the midst of S4.


Quote:
Even though I don't really think the Angel imagining he was with Buffy was a realistic theory considering it was his dream and if he wanted to imagine Buffy thats who it would have been.


I'm not so sure. It looked like Angel was dreaming but the shaman said it was a vision.

WO-PANG: The vision becomes reality. It is done.

Then too the only way he could have imagined sex with Buffy is if SMG had appeared in the episode...apparently that wasn't possible....so they did the next best thing. You gotta ask yourself why the writers put that in the episode to begin with if we weren't supposed to think that Angel was thinking about Buffy. What other purpose does it serve? It wasn't needed to show us that Angel had lost his soul because the scene immediately cut to the shaman saying it was done and then to Angelus in the cage with the maniacal laughter.

I still remember my excitement when Angel said Buffy's name...I had read spoilers for the episode and knew there was going to be Angel/Cordy sex....to say I was upset would be putting it mildly...and then the most wonderful thing happened...the sex took place in either a dream or a vision and wasn't even real...and it was topped off by Angel saying Buffy's name. Halleluiah !



I agree with you about the David Fury quote. Sometimes it's hard to remember that the writers are not as obsessed with the shows as we are and it had been a long time since he had written the episode. I would be curious though to know if any of the writers had made any statements about this line right after the episode had aired.

I had recently seen that quote from David and it made me very happy. However, then I also read some previous quotes from him during the height of the C/A arc where he said that B/A was a crush and that C/A was a more mature love. I remember reading that quote back when he originally said it and being so upset by it, haha. Seems a little silly now, but at the time I felt like that was kind of like the nail in the coffin for B/A and I felt as though that was what the show was trying to push down our throats. I agree with your comment about DB being a mouthpiece for whatever storyline they are trying to push at the moment though and I think this just proves that point.
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janas
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The only thing clear to me is that Buffy is never far from Angel's mind, despite the fact that the shows appear to live in separate universes since they were ripped apart when Buffy moved to UPN. His blurting her name out while in the throes of (imaginary) passion with Cordelia underscored the profound feelings he still has for her." -Matt from TVguide.

WERE YOU PLEASED WITH THE ANGEL-CORDY RELATIONSHIP?

I really believe that Angel's heart is with Buffy. I've always found the Angel_-Cordelia relationship a bit strange, but it worked. There was chemistry there, but not ffie way it was between Angel and Bufly. I think the Angel-Cordy relation_ship was just a mirror to what the Angel_-Bufy relationship was to him.
-David Boreanaz Oct 2003

Q: "Your official verdict: What did it mean that Angel said Buffy's name during dream sex with Cordy?"
DB: "I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously. So, when that occurred, it was a testament to his feelings. It's not the sex that makes him happy; it's the feeling. He can have sex, but he can't be truly happy."
Eonline chat 2003

"It was important for David to come and do [the Buffy finale], which is really sweet considering he's all over the end of Angel at the same time. It means a lot to me and Sarah and David and the writing staff as storytellers, because Angel was there from the beginning and because their relationship transcends everything. "- Joss Whedon About the finale of BtVs


"Every time they come together it has enormous power, enormous meaning.."
- Joss Whedon

"I don?t think it will spell the end of David?s association with Buffy or of Sarah's with Angel. Because I don?t think those two will ever be completely broken apart." - Joss Whedon

"There was nobody getting over Buffy and Angel . Just nobody." - Joss Whedon

Sarah Michelle Gellar: Angel will always be her true love.

Joss at the end of BTVS seven year run. "The Buffy and Angel relationship transcends everything."

In 243 years, I've loved exactly one person. Angel Smile
I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life. Buffy Smile

more here
---------
with all due respect, but I believe that the cangel is all enclosed up in this dialogue

CORDELIA: (Running up between them.) Stop. Stop the fight. Don't hurt him. Stop. (Looks at Groo) I love him. I love him.
ANGEL: You love me?
CORDELIA: Not you, dumb ass. Him! I love him! (She hugs Groo.)
ANGEL: Oh.
CORDELIA: Lay down your weapons! Silas is dead. All priests have been defeated. Any guard who harms a human from this day forth shall have to answer to me!
ANGEL: She loves me, too, right?
CORDELIA: (Hugging Groo again) Are you okay? - Did he hurt you?
ANGEL: As a friend and co-worker.
CORDELIA: Can I get some medical attention around here, people?
ANGEL: Maybe love is too strong a term.
---------

@daydreamerz: have you the link where David says that B/A was a crush and that C/A was a more mature love.?
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daydreamerz
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

janas wrote:
"The only thing clear to me is that Buffy is never far from Angel's mind, despite the fact that the shows appear to live in separate universes since they were ripped apart when Buffy moved to UPN. His blurting her name out while in the throes of (imaginary) passion with Cordelia underscored the profound feelings he still has for her." -Matt from TVguide.

WERE YOU PLEASED WITH THE ANGEL-CORDY RELATIONSHIP?

I really believe that Angel's heart is with Buffy. I've always found the Angel_-Cordelia relationship a bit strange, but it worked. There was chemistry there, but not ffie way it was between Angel and Bufly. I think the Angel-Cordy relation_ship was just a mirror to what the Angel_-Bufy relationship was to him.
-David Boreanaz Oct 2003

Q: "Your official verdict: What did it mean that Angel said Buffy's name during dream sex with Cordy?"
DB: "I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously. So, when that occurred, it was a testament to his feelings. It's not the sex that makes him happy; it's the feeling. He can have sex, but he can't be truly happy."
Eonline chat 2003

"It was important for David to come and do [the Buffy finale], which is really sweet considering he's all over the end of Angel at the same time. It means a lot to me and Sarah and David and the writing staff as storytellers, because Angel was there from the beginning and because their relationship transcends everything. "- Joss Whedon About the finale of BtVs


"Every time they come together it has enormous power, enormous meaning.."
- Joss Whedon

"I don?t think it will spell the end of David?s association with Buffy or of Sarah's with Angel. Because I don?t think those two will ever be completely broken apart." - Joss Whedon

"There was nobody getting over Buffy and Angel . Just nobody." - Joss Whedon

Sarah Michelle Gellar: Angel will always be her true love.

Joss at the end of BTVS seven year run. "The Buffy and Angel relationship transcends everything."

In 243 years, I've loved exactly one person. Angel Smile
I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life. Buffy Smile

more here
---------
with all due respect, but I believe that the cangel is all enclosed up in this dialogue

CORDELIA: (Running up between them.) Stop. Stop the fight. Don't hurt him. Stop. (Looks at Groo) I love him. I love him.
ANGEL: You love me?
CORDELIA: Not you, dumb ass. Him! I love him! (She hugs Groo.)
ANGEL: Oh.
CORDELIA: Lay down your weapons! Silas is dead. All priests have been defeated. Any guard who harms a human from this day forth shall have to answer to me!
ANGEL: She loves me, too, right?
CORDELIA: (Hugging Groo again) Are you okay? - Did he hurt you?
ANGEL: As a friend and co-worker.
CORDELIA: Can I get some medical attention around here, people?
ANGEL: Maybe love is too strong a term.
---------

@daydreamerz: have you the link where David says that B/A was a crush and that C/A was a more mature love.?



First I have to just say I love all the quotes you posted:)
Here's the full quote from DB. I'm not sure where it was said but I remember reading it back then and being upset by it. I had to go to a C/A board to find it again though.

"But this is the, the chemistry that's going on between us. Charisma and Angel's character this year is a lot different that what was going on between Angel and Buffy. Their character's a lot more sad - they're deeper angst. Buffy and Angel was this - you know - crush thing going on but this one is a little bit deeper and it's growing and who knows where it's going to take us" ~ David Boreanaz

And here David Greenwalt says something similar
"When Joss was first pitching the Angel/Cordelia story, I said, 'No, we can't do that to Buffy!' But then I realised - Cordelia has become a superhero. She's the only person in the show who is Angel's equal. It's not that first-love, Buffy-and-Angel thing. It's a second marriage, it's a more mature thing." ~ David Greenwalt

"Angel and Buffy have both moved on. Angel realizes this season that he had moved on from Buffy *before* she died. It's only natural. It was a first love, and that's where it will remain." ~ David Greenwalt, November 13 2001

Ok, enough of that...I'm starting to depress myself, haha.

There seems to be a lot of quotes from people involved with the show during that time that state that C/A were a more mature love and I guess thats where all the C/A shippers get that argument from. I just really hate how the writers and actors had to cut down the B/A relationship in order to make the C/A ship look better.
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dorotea
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read any of the S8, S9 comics lately? I am not a big fun of that story, but one thing is made clear in 'canon', nothing in Angel's life past or present through his entire run as a character comes close to his feelings for Buffy.
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janas
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if that was the mature love, then cheers to immature love. Smile

No, the cangel is a repetition unconvincing of Bangel and the writers have invested very little in that regard. There is not one cangel scene that it is real, and when was about to take a form real, Cordelia has chosen to become a higher being, setting in motion a whole series of events which led to her death.

I imagine that those quotes are related to season three, then part of the promotion of the show, but we all know how it ended. Some time ago I saw a video dated 2005 (one year after the end of Ats) and David spoke of love for Cordelia as a momentary infatuation, (also determined by the need to have a mother for Connor) but among them there was not the depth of the B/A, because the true love of life Angel's is and will always Buffy. The depth of the relationship C/A was all enclosed up in their beautiful friendship, but then lost the initial magic, becoming a farce not credible.

I hope to find the video (I think it was a convention in Europe).

I must say that I feel sympathy with Cangels, because they have much in common with Bangel and even if it was something short, the cangel was not unpleasant to watch (unlike of spuffy), but Joss has decided not to continue with C/A, because the magic of the B/A was unique and unrepeatable, and the cangel, simply did not work for the fans.

Where has the great love mature in the fifth season of Angel? Cordelia has been cited three times yes and no. Angel is back in Sunnydale promising at Buffy that he would wait until she was ready to move on with her life. With Cordelia still in a coma, Angel began a relationship with Nina. In You're Welcome, the writers wanted the presence of Buffy, but Sarah was busy, so they opted for Cordelia.. and still today, I do not know if for Angel, was a good thing receive the visions.. etc..etc..etc..
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