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Buffy/Angelus
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Dark Star
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject: Buffy/Angelus Reply with quote

Does Angelus really want to kill Buffy? He insists that he does, and yet - when he got into her bedroom to leave the drawing - he doesn't even try.

What do you guys think?
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D.M.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I don't think he did. I think he still in some way loved her, a twisted ugly love and I think Dru and Spike knew it especially if you watch their faces when Angelus comes home after being possessed by that lady's ghost. (and it would explain his overreaction to kissing Buffy too)
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dlgood
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he's rather ambivalent on that score - that Angelus wants to destroy Buffy - not because he wants her dead or destroyed - but because he cannot control how he feels about her.

IMHO - that's what his effort to destroy the world was about. The Angelus we've seen in flashbacks, for the most part, is not necessarily someone who generally wants to destroy the world. Unlike the Master, for example, he really enjoys taking advantage of things... I think, more than anything, at that point in time, he didn't want to feel controlled, and this was his way to do that.
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bashipforever
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with the others. Angelus loves Buffy on some level. He had so many on screen chances to kill her and he didn't. We know he watched her sleep one night. I think there were probably more nights he watched her sleep, after all it's implied that Angel watched her sleep often. Of course if it came down to him or her, Angelus would always pick him. He loves himself more then he loves Buffy.

And I agree, the whole sucking the world into hell thing, that was to get rid of this love he had for Buffy that he couldn't control. No world, no Buffy, no love. I think it makes sense in Angelus' twisted mind.

Besides, he's got to love her a little bit. She's his ticket to freedom.
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greebo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he was just a tad bit obsessed with her and realized that if he took out buffy, that would be "end game", no more Angelus show with the toying or playing with her... i think he got much more pleasure out of watching her react to his actions /words and believing that he was the one always in control...

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Angelfan
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that Angelus did love Buffy. How could he not? He has the same memories as Angel. He remembers everything that Buffy/Angel did. Angelus' love was a dark/evil/twisted kind of love but still he loved her. He had way to many chances to kill her but didn't. He was in her room while she was asleep and all he did was draw her a picture. He killed Jenny. He killed Willow's fish but never touched a hair on Buffy. Why? Because he loved her.
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Kat
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that, yes he did love her in his own way. But the whole reason for the episode Passion was to show that he had a passion to torment Buffy. I think he wanted her to know that he wasn't in love with her (even though he was). This is kind of a hard thing to say. Remember when she was sick and right before Xander put the jacket over Angelus, Angelus WAS going to bite her. Maybe he was going to turn her though. I really have no idea. But it really makes you wonder what the heck is going on in his head.
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Alyssa
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you guys are right, I think on some weird, twisted level he loves her. And I have no doubt that he liked watching her suffer and that prevented him from killing her. Why else would he go after her friends first?

"Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain." - D'Hoffryn -- Selfless

Yep that is like Angelus' motto when it comes to Buffy.
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Kat
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In season 4 of Angel, when he turns into Angelus again. I got to wonder why he didn't say one thing about Buffy. I mean, I know their in different cities now but I think he could have mentioned her once considering that's all he thought about the last time he lost his soul. I guess im expecting too much lol. I don't really remember that part of the season.
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LisaP
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kat wrote:
Quote:
In season 4 of Angel, when he turns into Angelus again. I got to wonder why he didn't say one thing about Buffy. I mean, I know their in different cities now but I think he could have mentioned her once considering that's all he thought about the last time he lost his soul. I guess im expecting too much lol. I don't really remember that part of the season.


You're not expecting too much, but you're memory is playing you tricks. At the point that Angel lost his soul - supposedly in his moment of perfect happiness with Cordelia - he said "Buffy". This one word created great screams of joy throughout the entire B/A community.
When Angelus hears that a slayer is in town, he immediately phones Buffy's house, and is obviously disappointed to learn that she's still in Sunnydale and he's going to have to deal with Faith instead.
He also comments about Buffy when he's in the cage "That slayer - she's a real pistol".
I also believe that the scriptwriters on 'Angel' were restricted to he number of Sunnydale mentions they could make within any season after the two shows went onto different networks. This was particularly apparent in season 3, when Buffy's name couldn't even be mentioned. By the end of season 4 things were easing up a bit, probably because BtVS was nearing the end of its run, and by season 5 of 'Angel' there were plenty of mentions as BtVS was no longer airing.
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Alyssa
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why was "you can't crossover" a rule? I don't get that.

But who does everyone like better? Angel or Angelus? I like Angel 10 billion gillion times more because he's not evil and is kind and helpful. But I do like Angelus because he is so funny. I love in "Eternity" when he was making fun of Cordy's acting. That was hilarious!
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Dark Star
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But who does everyone like better? Angel or Angelus?

Angel

Quote:
I like Angel 10 billion gillion times more because he's not evil and is kind and helpful.

Now that's a matter of opinion!
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The Librarian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why was "you can't crossover" a rule? I don't get that.


Because of a falling out between networks when BtVS moved to UPN after season 5. It was stupid, but it completely separated the shows.

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dlgood
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I thought was really funny about Angelus calling Sunnydale was this...

He dials and says "Hi, Dawn. Yeah, it's me." -- so apparently Dawn recognizes what he sounds like over the phone. Which pretty interesting in that...
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thekorapersonality
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who thinks Angelus didn't love her in the least?

I do think she was an obsession of his: the thorn in his side, the itch he couldn't seem to scratch, the . . . bee in his bed? But I prefer to believe he hated her through and through, and would've liked to see nothing more than Buffy become a little pile of Drusilla madness at his feet, and, failing that: dead as a doornail.

My former room-mate, who's dead set on Spuffy, likes to argue that William had such a great capacity to love that when he was turned, he never had the capacity to be pure evil. That is, he wasn't "pure" evil because he could still feel love. But what I like about Angel is that he does have the capacity for "pure" evil, and he fights it every day.
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