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As a Bangel fan, does Spuffy threaten you?
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Are you threatened by Spuffy?
Yes
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
No
76%
 76%  [ 35 ]
It's complicated
21%
 21%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 46

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janas
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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Location: Italia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RomancexGirl wrote:
Well, Buffy's relationship with Spike was coming to light to Angel. Seems like a good time for him to fess up as well. I don't see how it was the worst possible time for them to share.
And would it be worse for Buffy to hear from Willow or Faith about Angel's son? Hearing it from them before the person she still loves? Buffy would be furious with Angel over this, and I think Willow has the tact to not mention it. Faith's more likely to tell her, but I'd hope she'd see it wasn't her place to.
See, I'm annoyed we even have to speculate over whether Angel told Buffy or not. We should just know if he did or didn't during the TV series, but we were robbed over that delightful piece of drama. My interpretation of Angel's character is reluctantly leaning towards a 'No' because I see him caring way too much about how Buffy would react towards the information. He'd tell her eventually, but not right away. While I'm happy to see she knows in the comics, I'm also disappointed over it. It irks me that the revelation was done off-panel/off-screen because something like that shouldn't be. If she ever met Connor at some point, it won't be dramatic because she already knows and adjusted to it. It just ... bothers me.

Angel could have told Buffy of Cordy, but it did not happen, for reasons that we do not know. I was sure it was true what they said fans, that is, that the original script contained the part Cordy, but was dropped for lack of space, however Imblack21 said that it is not, then, I don't know what to say. Talk about Spike and Cordelia are two different things. But talking about Connor? Didn't make sense to talk about it at that time. If you "delete" a timeline and create a reality in which Connor never existed, do you think it's wise to talk about it, when everyone has forgotten?

Buffy cannot hear from Willow and Faith on Connor, for the simple fact that they do not remember him most, as well as don't remember him more Wes, Fred, Gunn and Lorne. The only one who still knows Connor's is Angel (..and Eve). For this reason I say that was not the right time to talk with Buffy.

Buffy had to meet Connor in the ninth season, but then they changed their mind ..and for me, instead of Connor they introduced Billy. Maybe this is not so, but at some point I remember thinking that Billy has taken the place of Connor. It would have been perfect.
Connor The Vampire Slayer. Or Connor The Son of vampire with a Soul Razz


Edit

Oh, in addition thank you for your patience, as you respond to my post, even though they are totally ungrammatical and full of mistakes ..but I'm getting better.. at least a little, right? Razz ..I'm also using the contracted form Very Happy Before I wrote "I do not" now I write "I don't" A big step forward Laughing
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RomancexGirl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

janas wrote:

Angel could have told Buffy of Cordy, but it did not happen, for reasons that we do not know. I was sure it was true what they said fans, that is, that the original script contained the part Cordy, but was dropped for lack of space, however Imblack21 said that it is not, then, I don't know what to say. Talk about Spike and Cordelia are two different things. But talking about Connor? Didn't make sense to talk about it at that time. If you "delete" a timeline and create a reality in which Connor never existed, do you think it's wise to talk about it, when everyone has forgotten?


I heard the original script held a Connor/Cordy talk between Buffy and Angel, but Joss cut it out because it would put too many Angel elements in it. I find that a stupid reason because Buffy deserved to know all of that, but I'll rein in my bitter. Imblack21 did say that, but I chose to believe it was intended. It may not have been don't get me wrong, but I hear everywhere that it was so meh.

Like I said before, just because everyone forgot doesn't mean Connor didn't happen. Buffy's involvement in Angel's life was next to nothing when Connor was around, so it wouldn't change too much. And because Angel really had a son with Darla, Buffy should know. If Angel insisted, I'm sure she wouldn't tell anyone. It'd be a long story, but Buffy could pull up a chair. That's one of the things about Angel's life she's obligated to know about, given their complicated relationship.

janas wrote:
Buffy cannot hear from Willow and Faith on Connor, for the simple fact that they do not remember him most, as well as don't remember him more Wes, Fred, Gunn and Lorne. The only one who still knows Connor's is Angel (..and Eve). For this reason I say that was not the right time to talk with Buffy.

Buffy had to meet Connor in the ninth season, but then they changed their mind ..and for me, instead of Connor they introduced Billy. Maybe this is not so, but at some point I remember thinking that Billy has taken the place of Connor. It would have been perfect.
Connor The Vampire Slayer. Or Connor The Son of vampire with a Soul Razz


You misunderstood me. I know Faith and Willow wouldn't remember at that time, but they both knew about Connor's existence before Angel did his erasing in Home. Willow and Faith could've told Buffy if Angel didn't. However, it's OOC for Willow since she has the common sense to not mention it because Angel should be the one to tell her. If she heard it from Willow, Buffy would be pissed off and hurt towards Angel. Faith's more likely since she's a little more tactless, but I'd hope she wouldn't. Really, Buffy's anger would be crazy.

Was it ever confirmed Buffy was supposed to met Connor? I thought Scott Allie said it wasn't planned yet. Anyway, I still want Buffy to meet Connor. My active imagination would love to see Connor express a brief attraction to Buffy, kinda like he did with Cordelia until he realized who she was. Angel's reaction would be priceless. Laughing

janas wrote:
Oh, in addition thank you for your patience, as you respond to my post, even though they are totally ungrammatical and full of mistakes ..but I'm getting better.. at least a little, right? Razz ..I'm also using the contracted form Very Happy Before I wrote "I do not" now I write "I don't" A big step forward Laughing


Oh, it's fine! I love to debate about the series and Bangel, so I don't mind. Your grammar's not that bad. A little fragmented in some areas, but I can easily get the gist of it. Very Happy
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sybil
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh. The comics have not “linked up” with anything I happen to care about, and Buffy-Connor was huge. The fact they haven’t “done it” fits my world just fine. Myth.

Apollo specifically has so many myths it is impossible to make a linear tale on this god. One version holds he had a daughter, Dawn, and a son, (by many names) who ended up a healer (you know the symbol, with the snake around the rod? (male-female principles, obviously and the “wings” add the spirtual call to healing and “knowledge” gift from the gods seen everywhere, still today).

In my world, Dawn suddenly shows up very close to nine months after IWRY, when Angel was mortal and had slept with Buffy. Buffy claims her as made from her side, (Christ image re death in blood and water, of course—every symbol and name in this verse is about death, kid you not—including Angel, the funeral aspect of Apollo). Buffy says they have the same blood, Summers blood. A woman’s life is written in blood, the material (flesh) that carries the life force (soul) and “life experience” –which is why vampires crave it, since they need the material of blood to sustain the dead corpse and don’t “grow”—as they can’t have direct life experience on their own, but as by “reflection” in taking in that of those they eat—which is why they are creatures of the moon (immortal, constant and in fact * reflecting * the sun’s light).

However, since Connor is Angel in my world—the “real boy,” just as “Dawn is the “real girl” Buffy, and not the psychological “female principle” or avatar, naturally I want those two “kiddies” both dead (they grow up and that “dimension” of disappearance is where all these people go. AKA adulthood. And with the two timeline “reboot” coming, these “doppelgangers” need to “go away” in my world for Buffy and Angel to have their own transformation/transfiguration to “normal” and “shanshu.” This means this story can’t be again regressed to keep Buffy the immortal avatar of “slayer comma the” –active female principle investigating the unknown/darkness of the psyche’s growth from pure id and ego to include the superego, and our stories taking place in the subconscious to conflict with the conscious sense of self and interpretation of the world (an actual “triumverate” explained in “duality.”—which is why Buffy and Angel and Spike are given the roles they have been given—which the comics hold a bit static. That is why people are fed up with Spike’s “half thing” status as “the shadow” as “chaos” as “the darkness” when those fans believe he shows a lot more light than even Angel does, who most certainly is indeed the darkened knight illuminated with Buffy as his guiding star, his soul. (mate). Spike makes no such claim, as he would box her up, tie her up, and “make her” see HE is the shining star against her own darkness.

A couple of lines from actual prayers, why Angel is the implied promise with Buffy.

Angel: “I come as a darkened knight on a raging storm, I am the Leveler making one and all the same.” (death)

Buffy: And thou who thinketh to seek from Me, know thy seeking and yearning shall avail thee not, unless thou knowest the mystery; that is, that which thou seeks if you find it not within thee, thou shall not find it without thee, for I am that which is attained at the end of desire. (shown in season 8 duality made one. Flesh and spirit made one; “perfect happiness” You are god).

Dawn is disappearing. So my take on the tale chugs along. Life is good. Next Xander dies and Willow is the sacrifice, the magical seed, that makes the "reboot" work to "have it both ways." Buffy grows up (a time with no vamps until the corruption causes the leaks to Fray's "seeing them" with her Xander twinned and opposite: the vampire demon "powers" both the living slayer and the dead man, while the other "time line" "by many other names, the same Buffy avatar, to keep on keeping the more stories and inevitable corruption as "reality." AKA duality, free will and ain't it loss all so tragic since gentleness over strength, compassion over courage, love over wisdom "doesn't exist, but is the "ideal," and is B/A.

Why? Because action figures of Ghandi and Martin Luther King aren't the ones put into the hands of children. It's all the cultureal lies of identity in G.I Joe with zero understanding of the ecstatic engagement of the battlefield by the warrior.
HUGS!
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RomancexGirl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sybil wrote:

However, since Connor is Angel in my world—the “real boy,” just as “Dawn is the “real girl” Buffy, and not the psychological “female principle” or avatar, naturally I want those two “kiddies” both dead (they grow up and that “dimension” of disappearance is where all these people go. AKA adulthood. And with the two timeline “reboot” coming, these “doppelgangers” need to “go away” in my world for Buffy and Angel to have their own transformation/transfiguration to “normal” and “shanshu.”


I don't really get what you mean. The purpose of Connor/Dawn was to have Angel and Buffy go through a "grown up" transition. They naturally appeal to Buffy and Angel's paternal/materal instincts towards others, and caused them to take on more responsibility. Both learned from their relationships with them and they became more mature over it. Buffy especially. She went from "I can't take care of things" to being a mostly excellent guardian to Dawn. What's the problem here?

I still don't understand why Darla was chosen to be Connor's birth mother. I get why Buffy wasn't because let's face it. She may be responsible for her sister, but actually having a kid is whole new deal. She has too many issues, there's no way she could handle something like that. Especially not during that time, given her big depression.

I can never wish for Dawn and Connor to die, even though I'm not that invested in either of their character arcs. They just mean so much to Angel and Buffy, it'd destroy them if they lost those two.
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sybil
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the show "Normal Again." The real world is gray. Not black and white, evil monsters and good guys. There is no Dawn in it. Her parents are there, but Buffy decides to enter the "colorful" psychological world in which all these phantasms exist. Also notice that all the adults just "disappear."

Where are all these parents of teen agers? They die, they are "neglectful" they break up families and "move away." And yet we manage to operate schools, with teachers, hospitals, with doctors, a mental institution, a university, a museum, libraries, police and fire departments and Xander is a builder for "more." I don't think all that operates on McD jobs. But you don't see the adults except as "trolls" and other unsavory creatures. This is all POV of a child. A view created out of dream and imagination and even archetype. That means the “real world” people have to be those absent or the condition for their death must exist in a story in which death causes the transition/transformation. “loss” is the story of living, but to lose one’s life means you are no longer that person. You were changed and we have the psychological ways to show that. Dawn is the key to the discovery behind every door and her psychological slayer faces that unknown and darkness for her survivial, for her to cope, for her to have to deal with having “to know,” and each of us produces monsters within and face “monsters” in the world because they are given (human) expression.

We are actually walking around in someone's (Dawn) interior world. Buffy is the question between the id and superego, as slayer and human being in "what is human." That is why I call her an avatar. She would then, be immortal and I don't want to invest in that story. I want her to grow up and be "real" with "normal." I do not want to read centuries of efforts, pain, suffering, and "losing" to regress and do it all again for her to finally learn the lessons. No thanks.

Because I have invested in the psychological world inhabited by Buffy and her vampires, I want that world to change and become the adult world. Which it is. The world is becoming that of Fray. You will see more of the "corrupted adults." The vampires are near gone ( Because the "blood suckers" really continue, but just not sucking at our necks. We know there are real psychological vampires who will suck your "life force" and you know them as negative, dangerous, demoralizing people to be around. You can’t “kill them” but you develop strategies to keep them away from you or bring out their humanity by some other tack e.g. assuaging insecurity or ignorance).

In the rules of this show, death is the means for transformation. The old self "dies" to become the new self, a little harder, maybe a little wiser, maybe stronger or maybe more fearful to trust, or maybe a little more compassionate or confident.

Therefore, Dawn and Xander are becoming the adults. They must die or be in another "reality" or universe than that of Buffy, Angel, Willow and Spike, for examples. That is why last season was the big set up for both realities to exist. That of the psychological plane (avatars) and that of the integrated self within the world--still needing "the slayer" to continue the journey as "visitor" but the journey and symbols must change eventually: e.g. "how to be old"--questions not dealt with in THIS story, actually.

In fairy tales, the child will create characters and conditions to deal with fear and other pressures in the developing and emerging parts of the psyche. Also the child will always be the centerof the story, no matter how many siblings exist, as each sibling holds he is the center of the story. Cinderella speaksof the child as being picked on and not understood, the deserving hero, not seen and given her due in her own story; while Snow White investigates her own sense of wildness before (a death) becoming a woman, ready to be queen of her own life.

Myth lasts because the understanding of the symbols, situations, and characters are updated and arise even spontaneously, but are recognizable all through time because we are human and our growth creates these reflections and "dangers" to understand, just as these ideas are common pressures and transitions of any culture and of the human mind within any time. Perhaps the color red does not mean "resurrection" to you, but means losing one's virginity or taking on the powers of woman.

You want to watch every single event as a linear progression of whoever and whatever is dropped into the scene and causes people to move. Fine. Do that. You choose to suspend your belief as a romance genre, but basically believe “life is messy” and anything goes is a romance for its time. The confusions, illusions, and messy stages of development or the "complications" are of your interest. Do that! I just don’t agree that love is a many spendoured thing when the person is the many splendoured thing and calls any mushy feeling love. I reject sentimentality and Pollyanna puppy eyes. Love is monstrous because it is everything that makes life/death reality. And it is rooted in “no thing.” That makes it paradox.

Some people believe they have a soul mate in every person they meet. “it is what it is” means “this is who I am at this moment” whatever and whoever that is. Do that.

And most people want to be “fooled” to have their belief suspended to see “the impossible.” Let’s speak frankly here. A man and a woman, in coitues, still have”the body “ in the way. The POV is one of dualism. A body that is seen and the “spirit” that isn’t. The love act craves joining the other fully, and that is truly craved is for the body and the spirit to become one.

(Look, personally, I don’t believe in “dualism” or the worship of the “word.” I don’t have this dualism “problem” as I see the spirit and the body as both material; further, the notion going on in this “reboot” of existing in two places at once is exactly done as are light photons reflected upon probability waves, as light is the limit in this one, but not necessarily every universe).

Anyway, This expression of “true love” is done in symbols with true love “becomingone” , “joining god” or “becoming god” or showing the “hermaphrodite.” And that to me, is exactly where logic and “the linear” actually takes hold for me. It was shown in tantra and in zen in season 8; and this is exactly what union of opposites in male and female principles “looks like” within THE SELF. That we have actually opposites in a romantic pairing that is “star crossed” is the fulfillment of A romance that is the “attainment” of the “impossible dream”in two people foregoing themselves for the other; and has nothing to do with “becoming.” Nor does this kind of romance have a life in “roles” of male and female principles. Angel is portrayed as masculine, but he is woefully inadequate or “dry” when he moves/acts only at the impulse of the “demon” and denied/stopped by a crushing and enslaving soul; and not the “slayer” female active principle archetype (who braves the darkness and “the consequence” of it in CHANGE; which is shown that he is also denied the human who expresses her.

HUGS!
sybil
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sybil
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Spike in the hands of Joss. He was wonderful in all the wrong things that are called "love." He was everything that is terrible about Twilight--and you know I mean "the other one." Except Joss had the decency to give Dru some sense of herself in a clarity of “just rage” within her vengeance—even though she was picking on the wrong guy who didn’t do those things. (Some might add, Dru had the particular “power” of a woman to manipulate men aka “be in me.”)

I know most of us are B/Aers and character bashing is often forbidden, even if someone has the opinion that they don’t like a character. I don’t see how a person can form an opinion like that with out the fault of the character being part of the discussion aka character bashing. Don’t forget they aren’t real, so the character can’t be hurt.

I don’t see the “pros” on Spike as the thing Buffy * ever * needed. I don’t see why anyone likes this guy since he left Dru. I don’t get it. At all.

I don’t see this creation of St. Spike as having any use at all. His real value was shown. He would create * change,* the consequences spiraled out widely, that only added to his fun to plunge in and “do it again!”

I have to ask, how did Spuffy fans even happen? Because the superficial and naughty is equivalent to hot?

And then what do you do? Toss in Dawn and suddenly, we got Daddy vamp “who is safe” not because of his own obsessions, to “earn” the real thing that Angel got “for nothing,” but because he watches chaotic soap opera (dramatics that are * reflected * from a TV) as a guide to humans, so we can have Dawn protected by Spike * against * *humans * which he could *not * hit?

How about leather pants Angelus? That guy is utterly lethal, he is so obsessed with Buffy she has twisted * him * all around. He can’t kill her, even though he thinks if he does he “will just forget her. He can’t turn her, she won’t be Buffy; she’ll be his childe. No challenge, no vitality, no change and most importantly, “no surprise.” He can’t get her out of his *eternal * body nor his eidetic memory. That sense of your hair standing on end in danger with someone walking around like “sex on a stick” is crazzzzzy thrills for those who enjoy the passions of the obsessed stalker, but the object of his desires can end him. Inconceivable!

Once Spike had all the energy of chaos and potential, like someone with ADD but totally engaged, into the breach and the crunch, but also cast against eternity. Sure he was funny because he had zero impulse control that proved to have many consequences. Also, Spike didn’t really care to “connect the dots”—he is always reactive. He does. not. act.

I might mention, the buffoon thing to shine a light on the power of the pain even at the petty level could have been better shown that Spike, in fact, gets under his skin a lot more than some “Angel/us annoyance. “ Angel/us is the one in need of family. Not Spike. That is a power Spike can hold over Angel/us. (I think that mine shaft scene indicates this. We saw the “father” figure, yelling at Spike, was the same fear/love Liam experienced from his father for his unthinking “flights of fancy.” The difference is that Liam figured out how to use them as weapons to hurt his father, even as he destroyed himself). Sometimes, I wonder if these vampires are actually doing the growing up and the extended childhood is Buffy’s

Did people just “tune in” and watch a soap opera and that was the natural progression of things that Buffy would have stars in her eyes for Angel, but also remain too damaged to ever really have a love of her own? Did anyone ever think of the life you learn with and the life you live as two different things and the narrative was showing only one of these? And it’s not the life you live. (That was “Normal, Again.”)

Was it that Buffy should make a man out of Spike, and it was natural to forgive him, and cuddle him, and hate him, so she could get all confused and figure out “it was Spike all along?” Never mind the falling in love with your rapist. Hey, General Hospital got its highest ratings on Luke and Laura’s wedding. Never mind that Buffy had said “no” for * months * and moving on her in a (bog) room of privacy is “natural” for “dirty sex.” She didn’t ask for and in fact said “No,” quite a bit.

I think that Spike never should have done the chip/brake and sudden soulfulness of recognizing Buffy's pain and all he caused to suddenly THEN go get a soul, (which was the "rule" of "caring").

What I am saying here is that BEFORE he gets a soul, Spike can * suddenly* form the capacity to notice he hurt the girl—and hadn’t noticed he had “all long,” and has “hurt other girls” many times before because he NOW can “care “ about someone else’s pain when he just didn’t care about anything except what he wanted? I thought half the schmoopy I watched was him “caring” about her pain. Or was it that she wasn’t any fun to put up a fight, so why kill each other?

And suddenly, after all this “enlightenment” to another’s pain, “the soul” is the answer? To What? What answer? It was the answer to “the one thing” that he didn’t have to offer that Angel did. That simple. That SELFISH.

Even William didn’t care Cecily didn’t love him. He was a good man and she should be satified that he is okay. I guess she was supposed to swoon that he got his infatuation satisfied, but having her own needs met, in clumsy and clueless approaches to her and to the world, would have been a life of horror. Period. How would they even eat? William wasn’t good. He was pure. Such a man would love children, (as long as others “did the dirty work” to take care of them) but would never understand a wife. So, the Spuffy fandom says she just needs to time to see the obvious splendour I want? Well, lock people together and love blooms all over the place. THAT s what Spuffy says. Why not? Whole societies have others choose life partners for them. In the west, it’s the “theory forever” for chattel. That’s what Spuffy says.

I think that most people really don’t know what love is for love to fail. People fail to love. In the real world, this love also means people do not necessarily make lives together

I think the "mistake" to add some kind of texture to Spike, in his "origins" as William, the sad little Rilke-not, was to try to juxtapose punk with lyrical romanticism, aka the "stain of humanity.” I think that Angel/us was used paradoxically as Sigmund Freud, the scientist and father of psychology, but who didn’t understand “what women want”—which Angel does, even if “she” thinks she doesn’t want it all” in the romances of Rilke and Freud with Lou von Salome. Gotta love the name of that woman. Just really. And BTW, just to flip things over, as Joss does, it was Freud who “ran to suicide” as in completely cracked up, which is what Wlliam did. His eyes were OPEN to Dru and what she was. Liam didn’t know. He wasn’t choosing death. He was lucky, while the world for a long time, was not. Buffy happened.

I do think that all that appears as love, is clearly shown in Spike, most certainly is the argument that love must “grow” and “be nurtured” with much manure to have a rose. Please notice that roses also have great thorns before arriving at the gorgeous crown; and Angel saw the bloom before the bud appeared. In fact she was getting “manured” –dumped on her by the leader and loyal “good guy” of high school: the Captain of the football team, along with a heaping helping of manure from her own dad. And then Merrick croaks in front of her and still she prevails. The essence of Buffy was always there. And she likes to lick lollipops.

It seems to me, that Dru announcing Spike was in love with Buffy was the right person to notice, but also why she “ended up” with the chaos demon, which made total sense, as chaos is what Spike represents, and therefore it’s potential.

The issue I argue categorically, is that a vampire can actually love, despite what Dru thinks. What else could she say to the times and condition she finds herself? She and Spike didn’t have fulfilled love with a love partner. It was a half thing. Dru with her wedding to Jesus and Spike with Cecily dismissing his sincere declarations. They have echoes of a fantasy and that holds them together. It’s a reflection ringing through a reflection. She treats Spike like a pet, which, we are shown is to leave him neglected and starved to death. She is jealous, whiny, petty, easily misdirected by the “shiny bauble”—all signs of narcissism, not love. Spike isn’t plagued by ‘vision’—he is supposed to be “the objective truth teller”—which means he stands away from any feeling, either POV way, in making his pronouncements. We know that Angelus made pronouncements that were simply to psychologically undermine. Which, Angelus knew what women wanted; and he tortured them with denial.

But, then the “shadow” as the western civilization’s archetype to rebellion (not just evil) was shunted over to Faith, IMO, for Buffy and that left Spike “nowhere” but evil. We already got evil in Angelus. So, the entire story was “lost” IMO in not telling the tale as laid out with Angel and Angelus. That was the singular cost of ATS, especially denied “natural expression” between the shows. Afterall, LA was Buffy’s home town and shoes “live there.”

I appreciate that pitting Spike against Captain Cardboard as the “ideal,”—that same old loyal, team leader/captain of the foot ball team (only with weapons and a budget, but all of this inability to “just be” with Rilesy, only made the story say “something is wrong with Buffy” aka “damaged goods” because of Angel/us. Her ideal turned “evil” and that was why “human Parker” didn’t change her opinion on the male species, and Riley who would NEVER consort with the demons he was killing, “turned evil” to “lie with vampires” so really, * Buffy * is the real fault “for turning him” and Xander sleeps with anything, so all that is left is Spike, and love just grows because, because. Spike is the bottom of the barrel and we kept him hanging around in a show with vampires. Afterall, this filthy pig is what she needs and she only “wants” Angel.

And where are we today with Need and Want?

That alone is why Buffy’s story failed in trying to tell the tale and to make Spike, the saint, “pure light” and “love” and “all things ideal.” I have hated this guy from the moment Dru announced he was in love with Buffy. Did she make him remember being human? Isn’t that Dru’s place? He is dead, people. He couldn’t change until he got a soul, despite the *BS * in sudden epiphany or the rules of souls and demons and humans are irrelevant and Buffy can screw the world of phantasm and body parts between her mighty thighs; and Angel will always call her “Divine Inspiriation” like that little jar his soul lives in occassionally, that needs a little injection of shame once in awhile to keep him humble and broody.


That is why on ATS, any and every “excuse” to release Angelus was mostly bizarre and mostly disappointing, because Angelus isn’t obsessed with any of these people. They were annoying.

So, to let him run around, we have to have all this mumbly mystery tour with Cordy becoming a “vessel” for anything mumbo jumbo to birth Isis-jasmine. Which was all about the decay the nourishes the living, with unending appetite to do so. ( the death metaphor, but actually is shown as death-love) . That they made Jasmine some evangelist, hiding her avarice, was an old god trying to take on modern dress, modern interpretations for the “old myths,” for the same old human desires. IMO, it was Angel’s job to kill her, to maintain the ‘forever childhood’ we are ever living in. Connor actually killing his daughter makes his choice of “social science” just laughable. But I do understand “continuity” in Angel as the guy of “the second chance.” Which is why I know Connor is Angel himself.

While it is true that Spike is used as “the middle” and Buffy and Angel are indeed beginnings and endings, JANAS noted on another place that holds my hope and my belief in the prophecies of ‘normal’and of ‘shanshu’ that the story is and always was B/A:

“In the middle..there is a place” Yes. Between birth and death is a place and it’s called life.


I guess I really do just talk to myself here. Embarassed

HUGS!
sybil
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forthelove77
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark Star I'm a HUGE Very Happy Fan of your work. Project Paranormal http://project.darkstarfic.com/ficloader.php?fic=1 And Scribes of Angel http://scribes.darkstarfic.com/ Are Amazing you keep the B/A world turning Thank You Heart
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Dark Star
The Powers That Be
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dark Star I'm a HUGE Very Happy Fan of your work. Project Paranormal And Scribes of Angel Are Amazing you keep the B/A world turning Thank You



Why thank you! It’s always nice to feel appreciated…

You’ve made my day!

Very Happy
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forthelove77
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought i should sign up been lurking around.Like Angel most Angel fans quietly lurk whereas Spike fans can be loud and very Spike like Laughing .Guess we cling to the character we relate to the most Cool . I'm up to Season 3 part 7 of project Paranormal and loving it.Your work and the work of the Amazing writers you gather on your sites are just as important to me as the show itself and it's great to know that after 9-10 years off the air i can still get my Angel & Buffy fix. Thanks
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Dark Star
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re welcome! Part 7 of PP? That was Wreckers, right? One of mine, as it happens. That was a fun story to write…
Quote:

Your work and the work of the Amazing writers you gather on your sites are just as important to me as the show itself and it's great to know that after 9-10 years off the air i can still get my Angel & Buffy fix


There are hundreds of B/A stories scattered around my sites, so you should be okay for ages yet!
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SiegePerilous02
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to share my feelings on the dreaded opposition.

First off, let me be clear that the romance doesn't appeal even remotely to me. Spike himself also annoys the hell out of me in the later seasons, and I wouldn't even miss him if he were to vanish. I think the story would work much better with him being absent past season 4. The female empowerment message in season 7 is really undermined by Buffy's assault not being adequately dealt with, and her protective feelings towards Spike.

The extremely vocal fanbase is pretty annoying though. Not all of them, but the extreme cases, and their tendency to bash Bangel/Angel really turned me off from interacting with this fandom for a long time. They seem to be everywhere! And even breathing a single negative word against their peroxide messiah can get you flamed.

Out of curiosity, does anyone here know how Spuffy happened anyway? I know Spike was only brought on for comedy relief in season 4, but was the romance something the fans pushed for or Joss decided on his own? I know, oddly enough, that the female members of the writing staff really pushed for it. Jane Espenson is even drawing parallels with the Spike/Buffy/Angel love triangle over on Once Upon a Time with the Hook/Emma/Neal romance. For any others on here who watch that show, I don't think that comparison does either Hook or Angel any favors, and probably elevates Spike higher than he should be.
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forthelove77
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Sarah michelle Gellar is a Buffy & Angel fan Heart http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/sarah-michelle-gellar-angel-over-spike-ama
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lmblack21
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

forthelove77 wrote:
Well Sarah michelle Gellar is a Buffy & Angel fan Heart http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/sarah-michelle-gellar-angel-over-spike-ama



Always has been. Smile

-Luc
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forthelove77
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarah Michelle Gellar Says Buffy Belongs with Angel, Not Spike — Do You Agree? POLL http://wp.me/pomzf-5gw via @peopleschoice
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SiegePerilous02
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

forthelove77 wrote:
Sarah Michelle Gellar Says Buffy Belongs with Angel, Not Spike — Do You Agree? POLL http://wp.me/pomzf-5gw via @peopleschoice


Oh my God, the shitstorm, it is immense.
I'm not really surprised that Spike is winning here, sadly.

I know these polls are entirely a waste of time and they shame us (like, collectively, as a species), but I totally voted for our guy. C'mon Bangels, let's kick some ass!
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