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B/A Reunion...Almost
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elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^tnx for sharing..

Just here for some perspectives;

1) good thing to hear SMG saying S6 was her least fave . She said it before, she felt degraded doing B/S sex scenes and she got flacks from spukey fans saying she should be lucky having those scenes with jmπŸ˜–

2) I say this again, even if joss was not the "showrunner" on S6, it doesnt mean he did NOT know what Noxon and Espenson had in their minds. Besides, he WROTE and DIRECTED the musical which the B/S fanbase considered as HIGHLIGHT of b/s affair. And dont forget, SMG questioned Joss of the balcony sex but joss said he wanted to see how Buffy would like being fuc*ed from behind!!!! So, there, joss being "away" on season 6, doesnt necessarily mean he did NOT APPROVE of B/S.😏

3) and of course, S7 is very pro-B/S. So, i guess it's no brainer that joss had already shown his true color when it comes to whom he prefers between Angel vs. Spuke.πŸ˜‘

4) i wish jm just said he wanted spuke to be with someone else other than Buffy instead of having a description of what could have been a scenario of a great b/s fanfic (which is happening on crappt btvs comics)😏


And lastly....I wish they had DB say something on what Angel's stance about this ship war instead of mentioning OLD events of what he had experience before. He had said that in previous interviews back in the old days, so there is nothing new there.


But thx again for sharing. I dont intend to burst anyone's bubble, but i guess i am just being defensive of any press release that could have been another "false hope" for Bangel fanbase. I would only trust joss again, if and IF he apologized to Bangel fans and admitted he was wrong on choosing spuke as "the long-term guy", "more evolved" and all the bullshits he said in favor of B/S. It's too much to ask, but hey, HE DID DESTROY THE GREATEST LOVE STORY he will ever write. (Though in reality, he was not THE ONLY ONE to be credited for making that greatest love story. We have David Greenwalt, DB and SMG to credit too!!!!)

Thank God that DB was there, or else SMG would have a hard time defending bangel just as what happened on Paley Fest Reunion on 2008. Seeing DB and SMG together again made the reunion worth paying attention for. Though, with joss backing up for B/S and the unpleasant growing support of some fans on B/S "mature" relationship, i guess everytime SMG mentioned of Bangel, B/S and spukey fans will ALWAYS demand their fair and equal share of her love and attention.

Because.....angel and spuke are just equal now....or spuke is BETTER and MORE evolved than angel because joss says it so. WTFπŸ™ŠπŸ˜‘

I just wish this reunion just stopped the ridiculous ship war. Sadly, it only gotten worse.!πŸ˜”
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bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1) good thing to hear SMG saying S6 was her least fave . She said it before, she felt degraded doing B/S sex scenes and she got flacks from spukey fans saying she should be lucky having those scenes with jmπŸ˜–


New for me was the part about Joss promising Sarah that he would right all the wrongs committed in S6. That was new information for me and I assumed for everyone else, so that's why I posted Sarah's quote.


Quote:
2) I say this again, even if joss was not the "showrunner" on S6, it doesnt mean he did NOT know what Noxon and Espenson had in their minds. Besides, he WROTE and DIRECTED the musical which the B/S fanbase considered as HIGHLIGHT of b/s affair.



Well Joss wrote the Spike Lyrics "I hope she fries, "I'm free if that bitch dies, I better help her out", and "first I'll kill her then I'll save her"....and for Buffy, "before the kiss, "this isn't real but I just want to feel"....so if that was a highlight for Spuffies I think maybe they set the bar pretty low.


Quote:
And dont forget, SMG questioned Joss of the balcony sex but joss said he wanted to see how Buffy would like being fuc*ed from behind!!!! So, there, joss being "away" on season 6, doesnt necessarily mean he did NOT APPROVE of B/S.😏


Wow, I have never heard this. Where did Joss say this? I have a very hard time believing it, but if true it's deplorable.

Quote:
3) and of course, S7 is very pro-B/S. So, i guess it's no brainer that joss had already shown his true color when it comes to whom he prefers between Angel vs. Spuke.πŸ˜‘


I never found S7 to be pro B/S at all, And I do believe Joss kept his promise to Sarah about righting all the wrongs in S6...starting with no Marti Noxon in S7. Also remember this?

BUFFY:"I killed Angel! Do you even remember that? I would have given up everything I had to be withβ€” I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life. And I put a sword through his heart because I had to".

And then the NYDBTFSI right before Spike is burned to a crisp in the hellmouth. Joss did his best to fix the mess created by Marti Noxon and after the finale he said that Buffy and Angel trandscend everything.....and everything would include Spike and Spuffy.

Quote:
4) i wish jm just said he wanted spuke to be with someone else other than Buffy instead of having a description of what could have been a scenario of a great b/s fanfic (which is happening on crappt btvs comics)😏


I was just glad he was honest about the message coming out of the series. And in fairness to him he has a fanbase to make happy and he gets flack from them when he doesn't say the right thing. I don't think any of the actors would say they wouldn't want to be with Buffy....being with Buffy elevates the importance of their character....just like when Nick was asked Spike or Angel? He said he wanted Buffy to be with Xander...and Charisma said Spike and Buffy and Angel and Cordy. I think every actor will be looking out for their own character and I guess we can't blame them for that.


Quote:
And lastly....I wish they had DB say something on what Angel's stance about this ship war instead of mentioning OLD events of what he had experience before. He had said that in previous interviews back in the old days, so there is nothing new there.


It was new to me.


Quote:
But thx again for sharing. I dont intend to burst anyone's bubble, but i guess i am just being defensive of any press release that could have been another "false hope" for Bangel fanbase.


Most of the article was a recap of parts of the series and things from the 45 minute video, but the quotes were new for me at least so I thought I would share them for those fans who don't have the magazine available to them. And I will just say this about hope for B/A. There is no hope for anything more than occasional moments as long as Angel has a separate title. If we expect any real long lasting B/A to happen, Angel is gonna have to be put back in Buffy's title. That's what we should be lobbying for.

Quote:
I would only trust joss again, if and IF he apologized to Bangel fans and admitted he was wrong on choosing spuke as "the long-term guy", "more evolved" and all the bullshits he said in favor of B/S.


I think Spike will end up being long term guy when pigs fly. Joss isn't likely to go against what is currently going on in the comics....which though Gage gets credit for the spuffy of it....Gage himself has said several times that it was Scott Allie's idea and that Joss went along because it would make Buffy uncomfortable. If you re-read the quote Joss actually says between Angel and Spike that he is split right down the middle....that is not favoring Spike over Angel imo.

"You know, I'm split right down the middle. Because, in terms of a long-term relationship, Spike's kinda your guy. You know, he actually went and got a soul because of her, and he, you know, he was evolved in a different way. But Angel's Romeo. I just, you can't argue with the one that, you know, that is the first, that is the most important. That's the grandest love story I will ever tell. You can't argue with that."



Quote:
Because.....angel and spuke are just equal now....or spuke is BETTER and MORE evolved than angel because joss says it so.


Joss didn't exactly say Spike was better than Angel or more evolved than Angel...he said Spike was evolved in a different way. I hope he remembers that Spike evolved via a chip in his head.

Quote:
I just wish this reunion just stopped the ridiculous ship war. Sadly, it only gotten worse.!πŸ˜”


I didn't know that. Where is it happening?
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elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) joss promising smg is somewhat new to hear, but it is not surprising. Considering that smg had implied she wanted to quit during the course of the series, she and joss would somehow negotiate on how the show would keep on going. What i had in mind is that since smg already called quits before S7 started, Joss WOULD have no choice but to give in on her demands.

2) JM is not to blame if he had crazier fanbase than the rest, but at least he should have the balls to stop his fans. CC quote is somewhat irrelevant since Cangel is already dead. Xander/Buffy is already buried under the ground even before it started. So comparing JM's quote to other cast quote, is really incomparable when it comes to "encouraging" ship.

3) i have nothing against your post and like i said thanks for sharing. I'm just saying that this kind of hype about Bangel might be another attempt of luring bangel fans who really wanted to move on from Joss crappy ruinition of Bangel love story. EW did this because they could gain money from it. And actors did this for additional exposure. It's obvious that most of them are just being civil with each other. So everyone gains from this reunion. But no one really moves forward on this reunion except B/S fans whom joss gave his gift of fanfic continuation on btvs comics and a possible hope that Spuke is better for longer term relationship.

4) again, i admit i am having difficulty on English language, so i just base my theory and insights on the context of how words and statements are spoken. I dont want to go through all the "definition" and "description" because that would only make us elementary students who cant figure the MEANING of some words. But being "more evolved" dont really mean "lesser" right? Joss said spuke is more evolved than Angel. No matter how you flipped the words, it did sound the same thing to me; spuke is better than Angel. Because if someone is NOT evolved over the others, would that someone still be considered "better"? I dont think so. πŸ˜•

So like i said before, joss likes B/S because he likes spuke. It's the same thing with SMG. She likes Bangel because she likes Angel. Though we know for a fact that Bangel has more than of "liking Angel", in simpler explanation, our emotional connection with someone makes us CHEER and DEFEND that someone!!!!😊

5) i found that quote of joss liking to see what Buffy looks like being fcked from behind from a forum i used to visit where they had this B/S thread that posts "quotable quotes" from cast and crew cheering B/S. I only visited that thread ONCE and vowed to never read it again. I admit i never bothered to check for those quotes anymore, since i became uninterested in B/S. Though anyone is free to search for that quote. I dont want to google B/S anymore after i became a full-fledged Bangel fan. I couldnt even stomach reading fans "falling in love" witht such despicable "love" story.πŸ˜–πŸ˜·πŸ€’

6) ship war got worse in social media of course; The online polls being conducted by different media. SmG softening to B/S fanbase and allowing herself to be called "pet" by JM. B/s taunting Bangel fans that joss is very pro-B/S. Newbie fans who watch btvs but never Angel who are becoming Spuke fans and ridicule Angel and DB's low quality acting on earlh seasons.

So yeah, it is still on-going. And since B/S is still on the run because of joss statement and the bullshit that is the comics, i think the ship war WILL never end. Unless, one of the ships TOTALLY sunk.πŸ˜‘

Bonnaleah, how easily you forgot joss quote from previous interview! He did say Spuke is "MORE" evolved than Angel. Isn't that one of MANY things i have been ranting about him? Duh?!!!πŸ˜‘
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bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
2) JM is not to blame if he had crazier fanbase than the rest, but at least he should have the balls to stop his fans. CC quote is somewhat irrelevant since Cangel is already dead. Xander/Buffy is already buried under the ground even before it started. So comparing JM's quote to other cast quote, is really incomparable when it comes to "encouraging" ship.


I wasn't implying that Nick and Charisma were trying to encourage the C/A or X/B ships. Both were asked Angel or Spike? My point was that Charisma picked Spike for Buffy because of an ulterior motive. She wanted Cordy to have the big love story with Angel. That's especially crazy since her character always knew that Buffy was the love of Angel's life. Xander picked neither because he wanted Xander to have the love story with Buffy....and maybe Nick really doesn't think Buffy belongs with either vampire. I understand their points of view because they both want what they want for their character. But on the other hand it doesn't seem as if they were answering from a fans point of view. As for James encouraging his fan base? Why would he want to alienate them? They love him and he does lots of cons.

Quote:
But being "more evolved" dont really mean "lesser" right? Joss said spuke is more evolved than Angel. No matter how you flipped the words, it did sound the same thing to me; spuke is better than Angel. Because if someone is NOT evolved over the others, would that someone still be considered "better"? I dont think so.


Well I didn't flip the words...i just quoted what Joss said. And yes there is a difference between more evolved and evolved differently. Obviously I didn't like it when Joss in a past interview called Spike more evolved. In this current interview he has clarified that statement and it makes more sense. Spike did evolve differently than Angel did. Joss can say what he wants but we the viewer saw what we saw. Angel turned his back on evil and separated himself from society for about a hundred years and had no one to help him until Whistler. Spike had a behavior modification chip shoved in his head and after becoming ensouled had the help of Buffy. Really no contest about which vampire is the most evolved. Even James Marsters understands that.

Quote:
5) i found that quote of joss liking to see what Buffy looks like being fcked from behind from a forum i used to visit where they had this B/S thread that posts "quotable quotes" from cast and crew cheering B/S. I only visited that thread ONCE and vowed to never read it again. I admit i never bothered to check for those quotes anymore, since i became uninterested in B/S. Though anyone is free to search for that quote. I dont want to google B/S anymore after i became a full-fledged Bangel fan. I couldnt even stomach reading fans "falling in love" witht such despicable "love" story.


Nah, knowing where you saw it I don't believe it. Spuffies have a history of quotes that can't be backed up with actual links. Even now you will see them claim that Buffy has told Spike she loves him in the comic. She never has.


On a different note why don't you join Grace and I in the re-watch thread...at least for the B/A years. Smile
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elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) of course actors have ulterior motives. That's why they do this kind of event. My point against JM is that the guy changes opinion as often as someone changes underwear. I remember yoh said before that you didnt trust Jm's interview when i posted one about Greenwalt having major influence of making Angel a long-term character. That it was DG's idea to expound Angel as compared to Joss intention for the character. I just find it a bit of double standard that you suddenly on Jm's side just because you thought he said things that you find agreeable.

Yes, jm NEEDS his fans. That's why after saying in reunion that "he's on the same page" with smg for being a Bangel fan, he is very sneaky of giving his fans what they wanted by calling smg "pet", "luv" and "sweet" so his fans can enjoy his interaction with her and make them imagine that their fave couple is interacting in real life.

And that thing just adds to shipping war. And it just never ends, because the actors themselves are taking the persona of their characters so their fans can cheer and defend them.


2) as to joss quote, well, I remember reading a quote that he did say Spuke was the "MOST" evolved & developed character in btvs. Then months ago, he did say that spuke was "more" evolved than Angel. And now he only used the word "evolved". If that's a sign of spuke's regression in the eyes of joss whedon, perhaps that could make feel a bit better.
But then again, he is still adamant in believing that spuke is better in long-term relationship. Which makes still joss a spuke fan.

Again, we are guilty of double standard if we only agree on what joss said as pro-Bangel but disagree on pro-B/S.

That's why for me, it's hard for me to trust joss again. BANGEL IS GREATEST, NOT BECAUSE JOSS WROTE IT. It's not only Joss who made Bangel the greatest! I give major credit to DG, DB and SMG. That's why I was ranting with violence, how easily joss allowed espenson/noxon/darkhorse to destroy such great and beautiful story in order to make Spuke an "evolved" character. That's it.

3) yes, B/S fans are known to invent things but what i saw on the threads were legit quotes as I had read most of them before. Except that joss quote of wanting to see how buffy looked like being fcked from behind. But, on the secon thought, that is not really far fetched. Because, seriously, WHAT COULD BE ANY LOGICAL REASON FOR THAT SCENE?

Smg cried foul. She said in her inteview in vaseline commercial that she was most uncomfortable with that particular scene. Though she didnt say exacly what was joss response on that scene. Smg only told later on that she was happy that joss wont have to scream at her everytime she disagreed with him.

Smg felt "degraded" as an actress on b/s scenes. She may not be nicest person on earth, but when a lead tv star expressed such strong words, we know she wasnt joking. So there. They may all act as mature people beinh civil with one another in front of a screen, but it doesnt get rid the fact the something went bad on that set.

4. I cant join the rewatch for two reasons; a) I hardly watch a full series episode on tv nowadays and b) I dont know if i could take watching bangel scenes without being affected of my rants against joss. Thanks for the invitation but i leave the rewatch to you guys. You are definitely more refined in writing than I am. Something newbie fans needed when they want to know info about those early eps. Because most of newbie fans i saw on social media think that sarcasm equals wittiness, that they are so keen in criticizing DB's irich accent and poor acting and other cast's physical appearance instead of the message behind those episode.
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