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17th yr Anniversary of "I Will Remember You"
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bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people at Ducks and The Haven knew but a lot of them just aren't around anymore.
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comic fan
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Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1686

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonnaleah wrote:
The people at Ducks and The Haven knew but a lot of them just aren't around anymore.


Hey,I'm still around and knew. Smile
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sybil
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 865

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BWAHA! LOVE IS GENETIC! wHO knEWWW! And youse guys are right up there with the BFNs—heck you ARE BFNs AND EEEeeevvvvverybody knows comic has NEVER been less than SWEET for this entire existence of the fandom ANYWHERE posts appear. So, thanks, too, to all of you for being so much better an ambassador than I ever was. When one tells people they are just “wrong”—all they do is dig in their heels and shut off or down. It takes a while to learn that and it is beyond just “good manners” what I am talking about. I have NEVER been accused of being “clueless” by ANY B/Aer EVER for my “views” that are absolutely harsh on those things some of these fans believe are their greatest gifts. And, the fact I wasn’t treated like a walking disease to run from or shun suggests a tremendous wisdom I just WISH I had. I will take kind over smart ANY day.

And that is why I can’t take Joss’s “preachy” on the RELIGION of existentialism, a philosophical position, as a conclusion to (all) his shows; even though I do agree with a lot of his “private” politics, for example. I guess I wonder who he is trying to convince? Himself? Snerk….

No, the "BONNALEAH LIST” is your VERY famous "comparisons" of a 100 connections between Buffy and Angel; and I was asking CHERYL to make just such a list in HER kinds of love, showing those similarities between those other shows and our own—even if we never have to defer to ours being the best! (VEG) hee hee.

I guess I can really understand that famous list so much better now! I don't get tired of it; and I had SUCH fun once, in making an "opposites" type of list e.g. Buffy drowning in an inch of water and Angel couldn't drown in an ocean. I probably can find your list, but have no idea how to even look up mine to "reprint." ha! Sorry!

I am so thrilled, thrilled GIDDY you literally "make each other" --after all, no mother is without a child and a child makes the mom and you can never NOT be a mom ever. AND you are BESTIES is simply the best—I honestly craved that for Buffy and her mom, but the story had to make concessions on such things. Afterall, she was running around at night in dangerous parts of town, etc. And, the show doesn’t talk about it, but it had to be devastating to Joyce to be so badly hurt and then literally have to “move” because of Buffy burning down the gym, and the fact she couldn’t even afford to STAY in L.A; she had to find the reality working could support. I complete soar when she takes the axe to defend Buffy, even gets the cup cake for her birthday, each becoming worse than the last and I always love the idea how Joyce enfolds without interrogating her, and does so like no one can, except Angel and that is just “different” than the person who specifically builds a world she has to let go. It makes me cry every time, especially if anyone doesn’t get that.
HUGS!
sybil
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Dark Star
The Powers That Be
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 1700
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
bonnaleah wrote:
Cheryl is my daughter, and my best friend...so where you find one of us you'll likely find the other.

Kairos replied:
I didn't know that! Am I the only one who (has been around a while and) didn't know that?


Nope! I didn't know that, either...
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"Shoulder to shoulder. I'm yours."
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bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, the "BONNALEAH LIST” is your VERY famous "comparisons" of a 100 connections between Buffy and Angel;


I'd love to be able to take credit for the list you're talking about but it wasn't mine. That beautiful, wonderful list was from Luc...or as I refer to her, "our Queen".
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Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That beautiful, wonderful list was from Luc...or as I refer to her, "our Queen".


I would love to see that list if anyone does still know where to find it. I haven't had luck searching.

Also, now I'm thinking I should try to get my mom into BtVS! Very Happy
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bonnaleah
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it! Does happy dance of joy. I don't want to just copy and paste the text since Luc had lots of pretty picture in her list. Enjoy.

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/bangel/articles/28708/title/angel-buffy-connections
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Grace Newman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! Thank you!
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cheryl
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised there are fans out there unaware of my relationship to Bonnaleah, I have been pretty vocal about it in the past when the anti brigade tried to harass my mother.

What's a BNF or was it BFN?

About Luc's list, it is awesome. Luc is the Queen of connections.
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sybil
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 865

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HQ Looking for the list, I discovered it was indeed Lucinda! I am sorry to have made such an error. And THAT proves getting the facts straight before opening your mug MATTERS!

But, the defense of your mom, was so stellar, I felt it was so much more than a defense of one person. The PERSONAL attacks on B/Aers was horrific and I felt you were all the proof in the world that some fans may actually hate Spuffy, but these are FICTIONAL people.

I thought you did a great job showing B/Aers did not attack REAL people, but supported a POV ON these fictional people and did so, using the actual SHOW: Buffy and Angel's actual words and actions, AND each season's affirmations for that faith, right down to the very end of the series. I never mind attacks on Joss's work; it is OPINION and professional writers have to stand up to scrutiny. Again, why I do praise Joss, but also scoriate him for NOT upholding his own story, in all the efforts to "build up Spike" in order to satisfy the structure of the story, only for HIM to achieve the very theme Buffy herself was to achieve. THAT is why "The GIFT" actually does "end the series" and IMO, correctly. It just leaves out Angel's own completion that again got "off loaded" onto Spike and that means that "spirit" is rather lop-sided, if not violated in the feel of being unfinished. As far as violating Joss himself, I have a certain bitterness that he affords himself all the gifts of life he doesn't afford his own protagonists and that is why, as a feminist, I raise an eyebrow--okay, not "just"--in the idea that people can't hold a job and "change the world" with BOTH their work, their place in space, AND in the reality of caring for and raising "worlds" within their families: e.g. cop with a family, while asserting the scoobies were family, while he changed them to "professional colleagues" as THEY form independent families, but Buffy can't have her OWN independent family. Why? Because HE suffers guilt in his divided loyalty based on guilt he doesn't even understand. And THOSE things I can show out of his own mouth that are not "flip flop" "marketing." Why wouldn't he like Spuffy? HE IS CYNICAL and Spuffy makes him laugh. I jus think B/A is not a joke, but is real, and THAT is his problem with it. Trying to tear it down was always failed, because every fan could point to his own canon to conclude: THIS COULD NOT HAPPEN

Recall, the masked Twilight encounter. Buffy would feel him inside and it wouldn't matter that he was masked. He showed this when Buffy turned her head "feeling" Angel in hell, but she had to get those mortals out before they died. And Angel, if blind would find her. He showed this in literally finding his own way out of hell!

AND I am off topic AGAIN.

I am delighted to know that in one family mother and daughter love this story, as it was meant to be, and both of you get to share that and participated with us in showing it, but that you are close (and maybe even closer in so many other ways), is wonderful to know!

BFN means Big Famous Name.

HUGS! As we dance around holding hands!
sybil
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cheryl
Dark Avenger


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I don't know Sybil, I was pretty menacing when the personal attacks went flying towards my Mom, nothing will bring out the b&tch in me quicker but thanks for the nod towards my desire to keep it real.

While Buffy remains my all time favorite character and this fandom my all time favorite because of the wonderful people that I have met, all of you, Luc, Blade, Shawnie, Comic, Cathy, Margot, Jonathan, Dave, etc as I could type for an hour and not list everyone AND the absolute best part was the hour after hour discussions that I shared with Bonnaleah about this fandom and art we created and laughed at for another 100 hours BUT this is no longer my all time favorite series. It should have been and could have been but the second Joss wanted two instead of one and later three instead of two and walked away, his replacements lost it and no matter who tries can't seem to find it.

I have no doubt that Joss is more than capable of righting every damaging wrong and he is so brilliant it would probably be pretty easy for him, for what ever reason, he doesn't want it. BIG mistake, IMHO because Buffy season 1-3 is utterly freaking brilliant the likes of which we will never encounter again. Whether your favorite character is Buffy, Giles, Xander, Willow or Angel, Joss wrote them for keeps and cemented them into our heart.

No doubt about it, Joss has it. Getting him to use it? That's another story.
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comic fan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was just posted at Whedonesque this morning. Smile

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/feature/a819801/8-most-moving-tv-reunions-from-jon-and-sansa-to-amy-pond-and-the-doctor/

From Jon and Sansa to Amy and The Doctor, comebacks that made us blub.

One of the big risks of becoming attached to iconic TV characters is that they can potentially leave your favourite show at any moment, even if they're the lead (Game Of Thrones fans, we feel your pain especially).

Still, if your telly besties do abandon you, as long as they don't do it in a big ball of flames, there's always a chance they can come back, which frequently leads to one of the most satisfying television events of them all – the reunion.

Here's some of our favourite ever TV comebacks, so get your tissues at the ready and also be careful of SPOILERS (we don't want you crying for the wrong reasons).

3. Buffy & Angel – Angel, Season 1, Episode 8: 'I Will Remember You'



What made it so powerful: Arguably in the top three most powerful Buffy/Angel episodes EVER, this is basically an epic romantic weepie shoved into a show about monsters and vampires fighting an evil law firm. It wasn't the first time Buffy and Angel were reunited – these two were pulled apart more often than Christmas crackers – but it was the most emotional.

When Angel gets bitten by a demon, he turns human, allowing him to have a proper relationship with his true love Buffy. But dark consequences force him to reverse the change, with the (mean) catch being Buffy won't remember any of the wonderful memories they've made together. Buffy tearfully promises that nothing could make her forget, until the spell is cast and… she does.

*SOB*

If they had never, ever got back together: We might not have given Angel a chance to improve on its slightly dodgy first season, of which this episode was the undoubted highlight.
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Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing!

I had to laugh to see it came in right behind Michael Scott and Dwight Schrute from The Office! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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elle2
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^nice article 😀

All good except to one tiny detail;

Quote:
When Angel gets bitten by a demon, he turns human, allowing him to have a proper relationship with his true love Buffy. But dark consequences force him to reverse the change, with the (mean) catch being Buffy won't remember any of the wonderful memories they've made together. Buffy tearfully promises that nothing could make her forget, until the spell is cast and… she does.


I wished they also noticed that Angel was not bitten! His blood mixed with the Mohra's demon blood which had "renegenative" effect making Angel technically alive; hence, from being undead to being alive, Angel was human for a day.

And for me, this is the reason why IWRY is pivotal in Angel's journey to Shanshu and not just because of Buffy/Angel reunion. Having a soul is definitely not enough for Angel. He is still a vampire. A demon who has been cursed to suffer all through eternity. And even if Angel was ensouled without being cursed, he still couldnt be with Buffy simply because of the constrainsts inherit of being a vampire i.e. immortality, sunlight, stakes and infertility, etc.

I like the old idea from both btvs and ats that soulless vamps are demons and Angel being cursed with a soul was extraordinary better than "humanizing" some soulless vamp's behavior because the showrunners are looking for some drama and so they could attract viewers/audience who could easily relate themselves with those drama.😑
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