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Buffy Season 1: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
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Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, wow! That's wonderful. I love how the artist captured Buffy's face so well.

Thanks so much for sharing!
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bonnaleah
Dark Avenger


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey no problem, I"m happy to share it. I think it's so beautiful and now that the artists site is down it's a way for others to see it.

But back on topic...I brought over some questions from the previous rewatch thread, in the hopes of getting more people to join in. So for everyone who wants to catch up...

WTTH
1) What was your favorite part of the episode?
2) What did you like least about the episode?
3) Favorite quote?
4) Least favorite quote or quote that made you cringe?
5) Favorite scene?
6) Least favorite scene?
7) B/A factor?
8.) Scooby gang observations?
9) What about that music? Like? Didnt like? Does it resonate?
10) Favorite fore-shadowy goodness?

The Harvest
1) What do you think about the mythology as laid out by Giles?
2) Favorite part of the episode?
3) Least favorite part of the episode?
4) Jesse suddenly becomes more assertive and rude and thus, more acceptable, attractive to Cordelia. What do you think of that? What kind of message, if any, does it convey?
5) Soon to be dubbed "slayerettes" observations?
6) Anything you would change?
7) What do you make of Angel's hesitance to go with Buffy into the sewers?
8.) B/A factor?
9) Favorite quote?
10) Any scene or quote that made you cringe, roll your eyes, heave?

The Witch
1) This is not the first time we see Buffy try to have something in her life be "normal" and it turns out that it'll be an ongoing theme for all 7 seasons. How would things have been different if she'd been able to actually stay on the cheer-leading squad? Do you think it's best that she wasn't able to or do you think her duties as slayer would have made it inevitable either way?

2) The bracelet that Xander gives Buffy, along with the following words: "Was she wearin' it? The bracelet, she was wearin' it, right? Pretty much like we're goin' out." - cute or creepy? Followup question: The bracelet is engraved with "Yours, always" - and yet it's Angel's "Always" in a book of poetry that resonates with Buffy who repeats that phrase back to him - thoughts on that?

3) Giles shows, once again, his excitement at the potential horrors they could come across as part of the "thrill of living on the hellmouth." It's clear that this thrill takes it's toll on Giles through the years just as it does with Buffy, though to a lesser extent for Giles. Do you believe this initial excitement is due to his past as "Ripper" or his relative distance to the toll it will exact (on him, yes, but also on Buffy) or both? Something else? Discuss.

4) Amy's story arc from season 1 to season 6 - do you see the seeds of what she will become form in this episode or do you believe that happens later as a result of other issues she has not yet experienced?

5) Once again, Buffy shows remarkable intuition in this episode, discovering the answer both in the idea that the rash of attacks on cheerleaders is due to someone who wants to be a cheerleader "too much" and in discovering that Amy's mom was actually Amy, trapped in her mom's body. Do you believe this intuition is intrinsic to Buffy or is it part of her slayerness?

6) The Buffy/Giles bond?

7) Scooby gang interaction?

8.) Favorite scene/least favorite scene?

9) Favorite quote/least favorite quote?

10) The ending - karmic justice? Does this "kill" Amy's mom? Is that just her "soul" trapped in the statue? Discuss...

11) Fore-shadowy goodness?

BONUS QUESTION:

This is the first time - though not the last - that a human is shown to be the villain of the episode. A human, a mother - someone WITH a soul who *chooses* evil for her own selfish gains, even going so far as to forsake her own child and be willing to kill others. Taking that into consideration, what would you say to critics who dismiss the first season of Buffy as too childish, too "high school" or lacking the edge/darkness, depth, maturity or moral ambiguity of later seasons?


Teachers Pet


1) The episode opens with Xander dreaming of being the cool guy who saves helpless Buffy. What do you think this says - if anything - about Xander with regard to Buffy? Has your opinion on this scene changed from the first time you saw it with now?

2) Thoughts on Dr. Gregory? How heartbreaking is it to see his faith in Buffy and her response to that faith?

3) Macho pissing match between Xander and Blayne at the Bronze and Xander's reaction in slinging his arm around Buffy and Willow - your thoughts, feelings, reactions - then and now.

4) ANGEL! B/A factor with this first scene in the Bronze. Discuss also Willow's initial reaction and Xander's reaction.

5) Xander has a strong reaction to Buffy's disgust over Natalie French's predatory style with the high school boys. Combined with his dream of how he'd like things to go with Buffy, what does this say about early Xander? Keeping in mind that this is not the first time he shows a preference to want to be the hero to a helpless Buffy or that he has an aggressive attitude about her interest in Angel.

6) Buffy/Giles bonding moment over the death of Dr. Gregory - the start of a really great, caring relationship. Can you see a stronger attachment occurring for Giles towards Buffy? What other ways do you see this bond manifest itself in this episode?

7) Mr. Flutie insists on "healing" time - what did you think of this scene?

8.) Favorite scene/least favorite scene?

9) Favorite quote/least favorite quote?

10) Buffy seems completely confused by Xander's attitude when she tries to discuss what Ms. French is. Does it seem to you as if Buffy is as clueless to Xander's attraction to her as Xander appears to be over Willow's attraction to him?

11) Last B/A scene - swoon factor, fore-shadowy goodness, B/A connections:

12) Did it bug you that the last scene we have is of the praying mantis eggs, leading one to believe it would be a plot point later only to have it never materialize?
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Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x05 "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date"
Written by Rob Des Hotel and Dean Batali
Directed by David Semel
Original air date: March 31, 1997



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "Buffy is beginning to feel the lack of a boyfriend in her life, but when the quiet and mysterious Owen starts to pay her attention, things start to look up — no matter how much Cordelia tries to interfere. Meanwhile the Master is planning the coming of the Anointed One, a powerful vampire who will help him fight the slayer."

Since bonnaleah brought over the questions from the previous episodes from the other rewatch thread, I thought I would copy Luc's questions for this one as well:

Quote:

1) Giles is seen patrolling with Buffy critiquing her slaying style. Do you think his words have merit - particularly when he mentions that she is expending too much time and energy?

2) Interestingly, when Buffy dusts the vampire a ring is left behind. Since even the vampires clothes dust when they are killed what do you make of the ring *not* dusting?

3) Owen has a certain .... Owenocity about him. He comes into the library seeking poetry and Willow later describes him as brooding, solitary and mysterious (as well as sensitive, yet manly) - considering all we discover about Angel, would you say Buffy has a particular "type" that she is drawn to? Or is she fixating on Owen because he reminds her of Angel? Can you feel/see the B/A subtext in her flirtation with Owen?

4) Any particular favorite poem you have from Emily Dickinson? Anything you can think of that applies to Buffy or B/A?

5) Xander is shown in a rather juvenile light again in this episode - the emphasis on his Tweety bird watch in comparison to the gold pocket watch Owen gives Buffy, the way Xander tries to sabotage Buffy's date with Owen, the way he spies on her while she's changing....do you think this is all done deliberately to show the audience why Buffy (who is much more mature than her peers due to her calling) isn't into him? And what do you make of his passive aggressive remarks about the red lipstick: "You mean for kissing you and then telling all his friends how easy you are so the whole school loses respect for you and then talks behind your back? The red's fine."

6) Salty-goodness! Discuss the B/A subtext and text of the issue - the way Buffy straightens, gets wide eyed and flirty when Angel comes in - the way she says his name and he says hers in return (which would become a staple): "Buffy." "Angel". How adorable is jealous Angel?? Discuss every delicious detail, in detail!

7) Interestingly, in the shooting script of the episode, Own is called "Chambers" and they don't go to the Bronze - they go bowling. In fact, large portions are quite different and no Angel interrupting the date. One of the more interesting things is this, from Buffy to Giles about Owen/Chambers: "And I thought, I'm not being fair to him. He deserves a normal life. He shouldn't have to put up with all...(searching)
this.
If you get a chance, check out the shooting script at www.buffyworld.com. In the meantime, what do you make of the changes and how interesting are those words Buffy says - since we know she'll hear them about herself from another guy...?

8.) Favorite part of the episode? Least favorite?

9) Favorite quote? Least favorite?

10) Anything you would change?


I’ll post my thoughts later today.
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Raquin
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been so long since I've watched the show or even checked in here, and now that I do pop by, there's a rewatch going on! So great. An episode a week is a good pace, too. I'll catch up and join in next week!
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bonnaleah
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Raquin. So happy you're gonna join the rewatch. Very Happy


NKABOTFD is one of my favorite S1 episodes. It has pretty much everything I love about the early seasons. Graveyard scenes, haunting music in the Bronze, the library, and just the overall dark coloring and feel of the early years. I really missed all that in the later seasons.

I guess I had forgotten that Giles accompanied Buffy to cemetary's and tried to give her advice about killing vampires....plunge and move on...so it gave me an aww moment that I'm sure I didn't have when I first watched. Now it is just adorable that Giles didn't send her out to graveyards alone.

I thought it was hilarious that Giles seemed halfway disgusted when another student entered the library. That look he gave Owen, along with 'What do you want?" was pretty funny. No wonder Owen caught Buffy's eye. He's handsome, solitary, mysterious, he's sensitive yet manly....and he can brood for forty minutes straight. He's exactly the kind of guy Buffy is attracted to....the parallel to Angel was obvious.

I love that Owen totally blew Cordelia off and asked Buffy for a date right in front of her. My initial dislike of Cordy just grew stronger when I first watched this episode and I think the viewer was probably meant to dislike her or she wouldn't have been written the way she was. Even after being rejected by Owen she still tried her best to move in on him...I was so happy that he trotted right back to Buffy and asked for another date. He thinks Cordelia is kinda grabby.

There were a lot of funny moments in the ep and some of Xanders facial expressions were so good that I thought wow this kid is really a good actor. I don't know what to think about Xander trying to steal a look at Buffy changing via the mirror...I guess the temptation was just to much for him. I laughed when he told Owen that Buffy didn't like to be kissed, or touched, and in fact not to even talk to her.



Hello salty goodness...and Cordelia has her sight set on Angel. I loved how as she is heading towards him, he is making a beeline to Buffy. And I loved the eager look on Buffy's face when Angel told her he was hoping to see her...only to see her face fall when she realized he only wanted to see her to give her another warning. I thought he looked kinda smirky when being introduced to Owen and I had the impression that he wasn't happy that Buffy had a date.

I guess Owen was Buffy's first kiss of the series.

Bless Giles heart for letting Buffy have her date and going to the funeral home on his own just in case. He was totally in over his head though, as he was most of the first season. Funny and creepy that he hid in a body storage drawer.


The Master is pretty fond of saying "as it is written, so shall it be"....I guess early on, before we found out prophecies were tricky things, this statement probably colored the way I viewed events having to do with the Master and added urgency and danger to the storyline. This time watching I didn't have any of the apprehension and that's probably because I know how it's gonna play out. But back when I first watched...cheesy as he was, I was frightened for Buffy and the Master was one creepy dude.

I think this is a perfectly balanced episode in that even with all the funny moments and witty diologue, at the end we are sobered by the fact that Buffy can't really have a normal life or a normal boyfriend without putting that boyfriend in danger. Sad to see Buffy coming to this realization herself...realizing she could have gotten Owen killed. She's carrying a horrible burden fo anyone let alone a 16 yr old girl and I think this episode drives that fact home. I loved the bonding scene with Giles and his attempt to console her with his own story of duty and sacrifice.

one more funny...

Owen: Did you see that? He tried to bite me! (helps Buffy up) What a sissy!

Quote:
1) Giles is seen patrolling with Buffy critiquing her slaying style. Do you think his words have merit - particularly when he mentions that she is expending too much time and energy?


No not really. I just think Giles felt an enormous sense of responsibility to train Buffy properly and to keep her safe. It's hard to fault her slaying style even this early on since she has shown she can think on her feet and get the job done.

Quote:
2) Interestingly, when Buffy dusts the vampire a ring is left behind. Since even the vampires clothes dust when they are killed what do you make of the ring *not* dusting?


I think in this case it's as simple as needing the ring to direct Bufy and Giles to find out about the Order of Aurelius, and the prophecy about the Anointed one.


Quote:
5) Xander is shown in a rather juvenile light again in this episode - the emphasis on his Tweety bird watch in comparison to the gold pocket watch Owen gives Buffy, the way Xander tries to sabotage Buffy's date with Owen, the way he spies on her while she's changing....do you think this is all done deliberately to show the audience why Buffy (who is much more mature than her peers due to her calling) isn't into him? And what do you make of his passive aggressive remarks about the red lipstick: "You mean for kissing you and then telling all his friends how easy you are so the whole school loses respect for you and then talks behind your back? The red's fine."


I really love Xander, and while I think this stuff was meant to be funny there's no denying that Xander has said, and done, some crappy things. When he was young he had this streak in him...I won't call it a mean streak....but a not very nice streak. Xander definitely had a dark side. We know from a previous episode that he has taken pictures of her bedroom window late at night...and that's pretty creepy... I think he wanted Buffy for himself and it made him angry that she wasn't into him...and so every now and then his not so nice streak bubbled to the surface.



Quote:
6) Salty-goodness! Discuss the B/A subtext and text of the issue - the way Buffy straightens, gets wide eyed and flirty when Angel comes in - the way she says his name and he says hers in return (which would become a staple): "Buffy." "Angel". How adorable is jealous Angel?? Discuss every delicious detail, in detail!


Yeah it was so obvious that Buffy's real interest is in angel. Here she is on a date she wanted so badly with Owen and yet the minute Angel shows up and tells her he was hoping to see her she can't hide her happiness.

When Owen is talking about his love for Emily Dickinson, Owen says she's just so incredibly morbid. A lot of loss, a lot of death... It gets me. He said she lived a quiet life...kind of sequestered and uneventful... Which he could really relate to because he doesn't get out much. That he just finds most girls pretty frivolous. The conversation just screams Angel....though at this point we don't know that yet. Angel has suffered a lot of loss and has been surrounded by death...and it gets to him. Angel also has lived a quiet life and has separated himself from society...And Angel thought the women of his day were just incredibly dull. Simpering morons, the lot of them.


Quote:
8.) Favorite part of the episode? Least favorite?

I really loved how Cordelia was going to make a play for Angel but was stopped by Angel walking over and talking to Buffy.

Quote:
9) Favorite quote?


Angel: Buffy.

Buffy: Angel.


Quote:
10) Anything you would change?


No. It was a perfect episode.
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Grace Newman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
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Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, bonnaleah! I think "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date" is extremely entertaining and really lays the groundwork for the ongoing theme of Buffy feeling torn between being a normal girl and being the slayer. The episode is also way better on rewatch, given all the moments that take on greater meaning when you know what's coming.

I have to admit, I do not like Owen from the minute he opens his mouth. The Passion of the Nerd video review explains my feelings very well.

His review and others I've read note that Buffy's crush on Owen seems to come out of nowhere (and it does), especially in light of the "oh boy" moment in "Teacher's Pet." I think it makes sense, though. The girls of Sunnydale High appear to have collectively decided that Owen is a dreamboat, given the way we see Willow and Cordelia react, and the idea of snagging the hottie playing hard to get is pretty heady stuff when you want to be counted among the normal teenage girls in your class.

And he's definitely got a lot of Angel-like traits, as bonnaleah pointed out. This is brilliant:

bonnaleah wrote:
When Owen is talking about his love for Emily Dickinson, Owen says she's just so incredibly morbid. A lot of loss, a lot of death... It gets me. He said she lived a quiet life...kind of sequestered and uneventful... Which he could really relate to because he doesn't get out much. That he just finds most girls pretty frivolous. The conversation just screams Angel....though at this point we don't know that yet. Angel has suffered a lot of loss and has been surrounded by death...and it gets to him. Angel also has lived a quiet life and has separated himself from society...And Angel thought the women of his day were just incredibly dull. Simpering morons, the lot of them.


Two big foreshadowing moments stood out to me:
-Willow's line: "We knew it would happen eventually, so we figured, hey, why fight it?" about her and Xander. This makes me sad, both in the moment for the seriously crushing Willow and for the future mess they will make.

-Buffy's line: "I almost feel like a girl." This makes me even sadder, since when Buffy finally gets her moment of actually feeling like a normal girl, it'll get taken away from her. Sigh.

Best B/A moment: My absolute favorite is Buffy's "Bite me" and the look she and Angel exchange. So great. Now that's some foreshadowing that I like.

As bonnaleah noted, this episode also gives us our first "Buffy." / "Angel." greeting — and it's also the first time we hear Angel use Buffy's name. Taaroko has a cute fill-in scene for "Witch" where Buffy actually tells Angel her name: "Proper Introductions"

And there's another adorable Taaroko-written B/A scene that follows the events of this episode: "Normal."

And I loved this moment of '90s nostalgia: Willow's Squeezit!


Now to the questions!

Quote:
1) Giles is seen patrolling with Buffy critiquing her slaying style. Do you think his words have merit - particularly when he mentions that she is expending too much time and energy?


Like Wesley later, Giles starts off wanting to always follow the rules. While there is definitely value in learning from history and the wisdom of others, Buffy needs to do things her own way.

Quote:
2) Interestingly, when Buffy dusts the vampire a ring is left behind. Since even the vampires clothes dust when they are killed what do you make of the ring *not* dusting?


Yeah... it's gotta be a magic ring. Smile

Quote:
3) Owen has a certain .... Owenocity about him. He comes into the library seeking poetry and Willow later describes him as brooding, solitary and mysterious (as well as sensitive, yet manly) - considering all we discover about Angel, would you say Buffy has a particular "type" that she is drawn to? Or is she fixating on Owen because he reminds her of Angel? Can you feel/see the B/A subtext in her flirtation with Owen?


I do see B/A subtext here, in two ways. 1) There is definitely some Angelness in Owen, though I find him annoying (but not Angel!) and 2) I think we're supposed to see romance as potentially fraught for Buffy, no matter who she is with.

Quote:
4) Any particular favorite poem you have from Emily Dickinson? Anything you can think of that applies to Buffy or B/A?


I always think of "Hope is the thing with feathers." It applies to B/A in the sense that hope — of being together eventually — keeps both of them going.

And hope like cheryl's over in this thread keeps ME going!

Quote:
5) Xander is shown in a rather juvenile light again in this episode - the emphasis on his Tweety bird watch in comparison to the gold pocket watch Owen gives Buffy, the way Xander tries to sabotage Buffy's date with Owen, the way he spies on her while she's changing....do you think this is all done deliberately to show the audience why Buffy (who is much more mature than her peers due to her calling) isn't into him? And what do you make of his passive aggressive remarks about the red lipstick: "You mean for kissing you and then telling all his friends how easy you are so the whole school loses respect for you and then talks behind your back? The red's fine.”


Xander is immature but I don't think that's why Buffy isn't into him. My impression is she's just not attracted to him.

Quote:
6) Salty-goodness! Discuss the B/A subtext and text of the issue - the way Buffy straightens, gets wide eyed and flirty when Angel comes in - the way she says his name and he says hers in return (which would become a staple): "Buffy." "Angel". How adorable is jealous Angel?? Discuss every delicious detail, in detail!


It's all very adorable. I found myself wondering if there are any fics out there from Angel's POV during the scene at the Bronze, especially the Owen kiss... Send them my way, if so!

Quote:
7) Interestingly, in the shooting script of the episode, Own is called "Chambers" and they don't go to the Bronze - they go bowling. In fact, large portions are quite different and no Angel interrupting the date. One of the more interesting things is this, from Buffy to Giles about Owen/Chambers: "And I thought, I'm not being fair to him. He deserves a normal life. He shouldn't have to put up with all...(searching) this. If you get a chance, check out the shooting script at www.buffyworld.com. In the meantime, what do you make of the changes and how interesting are those words Buffy says - since we know she'll hear them about herself from another guy…?


I thought the changes were good. Chambers was a bit too generic (even though I don't like Owen, he's not boring!) The line that stood out to me was:

Quote:
BUFFY: But I'm sure there will be other gorgeous guys who would do anything for me and are perfect in every way. Oh, wait, no there won't. Because I'm a freak.


Oh, I think there will be, Buffy. Smile

Quote:
8.) Favorite part of the episode? Least favorite?


The whole date at the Bronze is amazing. Owen himself is my least favorite.

Quote:
9) Favorite quote? Least favorite?


"If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is a classic. Least favorite: "Cordelia's hips are wider than I thought."

Other good lines:
"Well, in that case I won't wear my button that says, 'I'm a Slayer. Ask me how!'"
"This chap was good enough to bunk with me till they went away." (Giles in the funeral home storage drawer)

Plus, the entire exchange between Buffy and Giles at the end, especially Giles' explanation of how he found out he would eventually be a watcher, is wonderful.

Quote:
10) Anything you would change?


Not that I can think of.


And Raquin, I'm excited for you to join us!
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cheryl
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could forget just how much you love these characters until a rewatch is ordered.

My very first thought goes to how very much I dislike Cordelia in the beginning and how much I love Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander even this early on.

One of my favorite lines is "Hello salty goodness" I think my heart actually began to beat faster and harder when Angel showed up and I had forgotten he was even in this one. So Cordelia gets something right and that's all the credit I am giving her. She isn't blind.

I felt a deep sadness for Buffy in this episode especially knowing what I know is to come. Buffy was a girl who longed for what everyone else longs for. Sadly she is only going to get it in tiny moments.

B/A aside, Scooby gang bond aside, the Giles/Buffy interaction and father daughter bond is one of my continued favorite aspects of the series. Giles is lovely in every aspect and one of the most underrated characters in this series. I simply love him.

I also love how we see that while Buffy may appear to be clueless or less intellegent than those around her, she is actuallly not, at all. In many aspects she is worlds beyond them as they run to catch up with what she has already figured out.

Great episode.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheryl wrote:
One of my favorite lines is "Hello salty goodness" I think my heart actually began to beat faster and harder when Angel showed up and I had forgotten he was even in this one. So Cordelia gets something right and that's all the credit I am giving her. She isn't blind.


I love this.

And the WB wasn't blind, either, apparently. From the promo for this episode, you would think that Angel was in almost as many scenes as Buffy!

Here's the link to the promos compilation cued to the start time for this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIH15UzYf0&feature=youtu.be&t=2m5s
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is one of SyFy's choices for Buffy's top 20 quotes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwEbMK0zASg
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x06: The Pack
Written by Matt Kiene & Joe Reinkemeyer
Directed by Bruce Seth Green
Original air date: April 7, 1997


RIP, Herbert and Flutie.

Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "Buffy and the gang are on a school trip to the zoo when Xander sneaks into the quarantined Hyena cage to help a boy that is being picked on, but he and four others are infected by something and begin to act strangely."

I'm no Luc, but I decided to try my hand at a few questions:

1. The opening emphasizes Buffy's change in social status, from popular cheerleader to weird troublemaker. How much do you think she minds not being part of the in crowd anymore?
2. Xander is possessed by the hyena spirit, and there are some similarities to vampires, which are dead humans possessed by demons. Xander was obviously unable to control himself or act in the way he would have normally. Do you think this experience influences his attitude toward vampires, including Angel, or not at all?
3. Principal Flutie is killed in one of the creepiest scenes so far in the show. (Of course, right after he was nice to Buffy.) Did you miss Flutie after this, or do you prefer Principal Snyder?
4. Speaking of Flutie's death, this episode was noticeably darker in tone than the previous few episodes. Did it surprise you the first time you saw it? Are you surprised by it on rewatch?
5. The pack clearly recognizes Buffy's power during the dodgeball game. Do you think this episode has a message about how Buffy uses her power?
6. Buffy and Willow were very willing to forgive Xander for his actions while possessed, helped by the fact that he did save Willow. Do you think he would have been as forgiving if he had been in their shoes?
7. Willow shows a lot of bravery in this episode (including being left alone with Xander after his cruel taunting and warning Buffy about the trap despite the knife at her throat). We've seen Willow be a victim of bullying before. Where do you think she gets her strength in this episode?
8. Angel isn't in this episode, but he's a big presence. Any thoughts about Angel-related moments or lines?
9. Scariest scene? Did any of the scenes that were supposed to be scary or creepy not work for you?
10. Favorite / least favorite lines or moments?

Also, this is too good not to be brought over from the other rewatch thread:

Kairos wrote:
Kairos's Official List of Hyena Facts Showing That the Writers Totally Did Not Do the Research

1.) Hyenas are matriarchal; i.e., males are submissive to females. If Xander recognized Buffy as a potential mate, he should have also recognized her as an alpha, and accordingly grovelled for her attention - if he even thought he had that much status.

2.) Hyenas eat anything. They'd tear apart a piglet, sure, but they also wouldn't turn down a croissant or a hotdog.

3.) Forming a group and being together wouldn't at all make them stupider. Hyenas have a complex, sophisticated social hierarchy, and are altogether intelligent creatures who cooperatively use their numbers as their greatest advantage.

4.) They prey on the weak, sure, but that's true of all predators aside from man (and vampire).

5.) The zookeeper claims that they're dealing with a "very rare breed". I'm pretty sure there's a reason he didn't specify which one - wild animals are divided into subspecies, not breeds, and all evidence points to our culprits being the most common type, the spotted hyena.

6.) And here's my favorite: check out the documentary footage that Willow's watching twice in the episode. The very first shot is of a spotted hyena. Everything else is African Wild Dogs - not even in the same family!

All it needed was for the hyenas to try to overthrow the noble lion monarchy, and the stereotyping would be complete.


I’ll share my thoughts later today.
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bonnaleah
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

1. The opening emphasizes Buffy's change in social status, from popular cheerleader to weird troublemaker. How much do you think she minds not being part of the in crowd anymore?



I don't think she minds much at all. Cordelia embraced her and was going to bring her into the "in crowd" group, telling her "If you hang with me and mine, you'll be accepted in no time"..... but Buffy chose Willow instead. Buffy had to know she was giving up being part of the popular group when she made her choice. Willow even told Buffy that she couldn't legally hang out with Cordelia and be friends with her too. So I don't think she misses being popular...I think she just misses being normal and having choices. And too, she has real friends now, who share her secret and help her. That's gotta go a long way towards not feeling so alone.




Quote:
2. Xander is possessed by the hyena spirit, and there are some similarities to vampires, which are dead humans possessed by demons. Xander was obviously unable to control himself or act in the way he would have normally. Do you think this experience influences his attitude toward vampires, including Angel, or not at all?


I'm gonna say not at all. Xander absolutely hates vampires and as we saw in "Selfless" he doesn't always connect the dots. I doubt that the similarities ever crossed his mind. As for Angel? Xander would have hated him anyway for being a vampire, but when Buffy became interested in Angel that hatred was magnified ten fold because of his jealousy.


Quote:
3. Principal Flutie is killed in one of the creepiest scenes so far in the show. (Of course, right after he was nice to Buffy.) Did you miss Flutie after this, or do you prefer Principal Snyder?


I always preferred Principal Flutie.


Quote:
4. Speaking of Flutie's death, this episode was noticeably darker in tone than the previous few episodes. Did it surprise you the first time you saw it? Are you surprised by it on rewatch?


Yeah It really did surprise me when I first watched. I couldn't believe poor Principal Flutie got eaten.....and Xander saying all those mean things to Willow could give Angelus a run for his money. It's a super creepy episode that I think gets creepier on repeated watchings.... And they say the later seasons were so much darker, phff.

Quote:
5. The pack clearly recognizes Buffy's power during the dodgeball game. Do you think this episode has a message about how Buffy uses her power?


Well it probably does but I didn't think about any of that the first time I watched. I was just thinking how bullies never pick on anyone who can defend themselves and fight back. But sure, Buffy could be the biggest bully in the world if she wanted to be and instead uses her power for good.


Quote:
6. Buffy and Willow were very willing to forgive Xander for his actions while possessed, helped by the fact that he did save Willow. Do you think he would have been as forgiving if he had been in their shoes?


I want to think that he would be, but I'm really not sure. He was so unpredictable in the early seasons.

Quote:
8. Angel isn't in this episode, but he's a big presence. Any thoughts about Angel-related moments or lines?




Xander: Is that what you really want? (Buffy struggles a bit) We both
know what you really want. You want danger, don't cha? You like your men
dangerous. Dangerous and mean, right? Like Angel. Your Mystery Guy. Well,
guess who just got mean.


This makes me wonder why Xander thought Angel was dangerous and mean. We don't yet know that Angel is a vampire and all Xander should really know about Angel is that he gives Buffy cryptic clues....and that he's given her his leather jacket. Xander is also aware that Buffy has a thing for Angel, which is weird since she just last episode had a date with Owen....and we the viewer won't find out till next ep that she writes in her diary about Angel. It makes me think there's a lot of stuff going on off camera about B/A...cause really, so far there's been nothing shown to make Xander say these things. I guess I can see him being perceptive about B/A by the way Buffy reacts at the mention of Angel's name...but I don't get the dangerous mean part.



Quote:
9. Scariest scene?


While the subject matter is pretty dark, I didn't think the episode was scary...but there's a scene with Xander and the pack that creeped me out because of the way Xander suddenly looked totally menacing...and again I remember thinking what a good actor Nick was.
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Grace Newman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not remember liking this episode, so I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it on rewatch. Like bonnaleah said, NB is just great in this episode. His facial expressions work so well.

Quote:
1. The opening emphasizes Buffy's change in social status, from popular cheerleader to weird troublemaker. How much do you think she minds not being part of the in crowd anymore?


I think she likes being friends with Xander and Willow more than she liked being popular. She gave up on the cheerleading thing very quickly (and Cordelia's group, as bonnaleah points out). But she still wants some measure of acceptance/recognition from her peers, which is why the umbrella moment in "The Prom" is so great.

Quote:
2. Xander is possessed by the hyena spirit, and there are some similarities to vampires, which are dead humans possessed by demons. Xander was obviously unable to control himself or act in the way he would have normally. Do you think this experience influences his attitude toward vampires, including Angel, or not at all?


He seems to repress this entirely. I feel like it was kind of a missed opportunity, though I do remember it being referenced again with Oz.

Quote:
3. Principal Flutie is killed in one of the creepiest scenes so far in the show. (Of course, right after he was nice to Buffy.) Did you miss Flutie after this, or do you prefer Principal Snyder?


In some ways, I would like for Buffy to have more sympathetic adults around her, but the Snyder character is just too much fun. Although by the time he dies, no one is sad to see him go.

One semi-interesting note: In the draft script, the hyena kids kill another teen, a target of their bullying, rather than Flutie.

Quote:
4. Speaking of Flutie's death, this episode was noticeably darker in tone than the previous few episodes. Did it surprise you the first time you saw it? Are you surprised by it on rewatch?


Yes, yes and more yes. Parts of it totally creep me out!

Quote:
5. The pack clearly recognizes Buffy's power during the dodgeball game. Do you think this episode has a message about how Buffy uses her power?


This is kind of a lame question, sorry! But I do think Buffy handles power much better than most people her age would be able to. I think she is already beyond the lesson this episode offers -- that if she abuses her power, she'll hurt people.

Quote:
6. Buffy and Willow were very willing to forgive Xander for his actions while possessed, helped by the fact that he did save Willow. Do you think he would have been as forgiving if he had been in their shoes?


I agree with bonnaleah that I'm not quite sure. But at this point, I think I'm going with probably. If Buffy had been possessed and had said very mean things to him the way he did to Willow, he would have been crushed, but I think he would have been willing to pretend it never happened rather than knock Buffy off her pedestal.

Quote:
7. Willow shows a lot of bravery in this episode (including being left alone with Xander after his cruel taunting and warning Buffy about the trap despite the knife at her throat). We've seen Willow be a victim of bullying before. Where do you think she gets her strength in this episode?


I love Willow so much here. Is there anyone out there who can watch AH cry and not tear up?

I think she was able to draw on her affection for Xander and Buffy to do things that she wouldn't necessarily do for herself.

Quote:
8. Angel isn't in this episode, but he's a big presence. Any thoughts about Angel-related moments or lines?


The scene in the Bronze with Willow is adorable. ("I suppose some girls might find him good looking ... if they have eyes. All right, he's a honey.") This episode sets the tone for the reaction to the B/A relationship from Willow (encouraging) and Xander (jealously discouraging). They basically stick to those attitudes the whole way through.

bonnaleah wrote:
This makes me wonder why Xander thought Angel was dangerous and mean. We don't yet know that Angel is a vampire and all Xander should really know about Angel is that he gives Buffy cryptic clues....and that he's given her his leather jacket.


I had the same reaction!

Quote:
9. Scariest scene? Did any of the scenes that were supposed to be scary or creepy not work for you?


The scene in Flutie's office is soooo creepy. I didn't really like the hot dog-related scene.

Quote:
10. Favorite / least favorite lines or moments?


I love the Buffy/Giles training sequence, and Buffy calling Giles the expert on weird. I loved Buffy taking Willow's hand near the end. And I loved the book cage in the library coming in handy for the first time!

And on a random personal note, I enjoyed when I figured out that Kyle (one of the hyena kids) played Jim in the movie "Center Stage" (the pre-med guy, Maureen's love interest — the actor is Eion Bailey, I now know). Was anyone else obsessed with that movie? Just me? OK. Very Happy
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cheryl
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. The opening emphasizes Buffy's change in social status, from popular cheerleader to weird troublemaker. How much do you think she minds not being part of the in crowd anymore?

I think Buffy is learning a pretty important lesson regarding what's fake and what's real. What's selfish and selfless. I don't think Buffy misses the fake superficial world that she used to live in at all.

2. Xander is possessed by the hyena spirit, and there are some similarities to vampires, which are dead humans possessed by demons. Xander was obviously unable to control himself or act in the way he would have normally. Do you think this experience influences his attitude toward vampires, including Angel, or not at all?

I'm going to say that I don't think this influenced his attitude towards Angel at all.


3. Principal Flutie is killed in one of the creepiest scenes so far in the show. (Of course, right after he was nice to Buffy.) Did you miss Flutie after this, or do you prefer Principal Snyder?

There is a certain endearing charm about P Snyder, especially in eps like Band Candy, he was such a dork. I think P Fluties was far too nice to play the evil principal the way Snyder did. So I guess I wouldn't change anything.

4. Speaking of Flutie's death, this episode was noticeably darker in tone than the previous few episodes. Did it surprise you the first time you saw it? Are you surprised by it on rewatch?

I don't find this ep any creepier or darker than all the others before it.

5. The pack clearly recognizes Buffy's power during the dodgeball game. Do you think this episode has a message about how Buffy uses her power?

I think we could find a hidden message in about anything if given enough time and effort but for the sake if this conversation, no.

6. Buffy and Willow were very willing to forgive Xander for his actions while possessed, helped by the fact that he did save Willow. Do you think he would have been as forgiving if he had been in their shoes?

I think that just like with the two of them, it depends on who the person is they are forgiving or he is forgiving. Xander has no problem forgiving Willow of every sin that she commits the whole way through, he is not so forgiving of anyone else.

7. Willow shows a lot of bravery in this episode (including being left alone with Xander after his cruel taunting and warning Buffy about the trap despite the knife at her throat). We've seen Willow be a victim of bullying before. Where do you think she gets her strength in this episode?

I never saw Willow as NOT strong, just maybe lacking confidence until Buffy showed up. What drives Willow is her love for Xander, her best friend.

8. Angel isn't in this episode, but he's a big presence. Any thoughts about Angel-related moments or lines?

I guess not

9. Scariest scene? Did any of the scenes that were supposed to be scary or creepy not work for you? Nothing jumps out at me.


10. Favorite / least favorite lines or moments?

I love all Buffy and Giles moments. Heart
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Irony= see above.
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Grace Newman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 501
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to our rewatch, I was able to get a perfect score on this quiz: http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/10/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-pilot-quiz/

Very Happy
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cheryl
Dark Avenger


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Review for Angel
This was written by David Greenwalt and aired April 14, 1997.

The Master is sending “the three” to take care of Buffy and they are a nasty looking trio. One seems to be missing an eye and they look like they belong to some mean menacing motorcycle gang as they walk down the street on the hunt for the slayer.

Buffy is sitting at the Bronze with Willow as Xander blunders around on the dance floor and the name of the game is catch the cockroaches. Which is pretty gross. Something pretty important comes out of their silly conversation, Buffy is dreamy over Angel and Willow is still dreamy over Xander. Buffy tells Willow that when Angel is around, the lights dim everywhere, to which Willow agrees that she knows what that’s like as she watches the goofy Xander on the dance floor.

First favorite dialog comes next as Xander tells Cordelia that he doesn’t know what everyone is talking about, that outfit doesn’t make her look like a hooker.

My next favorite moment happens next as Buffy says her good byes and heads out we see Angel watching her and she feels him, not in the bad way we are getting ready to see her sense the three. This aspect of their relationship was one of my favorite things and built upon in the series and even extends to a human Angel. It’s fantastic and original to them.

So Buffy is walking home alone and feels the three and quips “It's late, I'm tired, and I don't wanna play games. Show yourself.” Then Bam! The three are on her and she isn’t able to get the upper hand, just as one is about to bite her as the other two hold her still, Angel appears and lets them know that “Good dogs don’t bite” and beats them off her, which allows enough time for the two of them to band together and RUN away to Buffy’s house. By this time in the series, we the audience understand that Angel is here to help. He’s dark, mysterious and obviously pretty brave. He really is the salty goodness.

Cut to Buffy’s kitchen where she is tending to Angel’s stab wound and we get our first look at shirtless Angel and that tattoo. The chemistry between Sarah and David is electric as they stand and gaze into each other’s eyes. I will admit, this is the episode in which I turned into a helpless unapologetic Buffy and Angel shipper, soon to be a Duck, later a warrior, but this isn’t exactly the moment that hooked me, this was the appetizer to the wonder that was to come.

So fast forward past Joyce coming home and Buffy pretending to send Angel away as she sneaks him into her bedroom out of fear for his safety (yes, I’m sure that had something to do with it) and another bit of information is presented. Angel is alone, his family is dead and he hasn’t been in a relationship for a long time discerned by his answer in regards to whether or not he snores.

Cut to the next day at school and Buffy is sharing the events of the evening, Willow is dreamy, Xander is horrified, and we see the level of Giles support of Buffy as we learn he researched the three from 12mn to 6am.

Fast forwarding again, Darla stakes the three for The Master as they offered their lives due to their failure just as Giles said it would happen, it happened. Cut to the library and Buffy wanting to use the crossbow but Giles thinking she isn’t ready, boy did he find out the hard way she is. Giles is just so endearing and committed to Buffy. Nope, he still hasn’t slept but on he marches for his slayer.

Heading back to Buffy’s room, it is evening and Buffy brings Angel a bag of food, as it appears he has been hiding out all day at her place. Buffy gets the wrong idea and thinks that Angel has read her diary and we learn that she is writing about his penetrating stare. Angel tries to put the halt to his attraction to Buffy by telling her it won’t work because he is older than her but in the end, this smoking electric magnetic pull wins over and they share a kiss. This kiss is pretty intense and it’s at this moment we learn that Angel is a vampire as he loses control and vamps out. Buffy is freaked and screams and he bolts out through the window.

The next day Buffy is telling the gang about Angel being a vampire and asks if a vampire could be good to which Giles explains that a vampire isn't a person at all. That it may have the movements, the, the memories, even the personality of the person that it took over, but i-it's still a demon at the core, there is no halfway.
Willows out of character snarky reply is another of my favorites as she says “So that'd be a no, huh?”
Xander lets his jealousy out, Cordelia walks by and is her horrible nasty self, Willow is supportive and Giles appears to be trying to figure it out.

Cut to Angel’s apartment, we learn here that Darla and Angel have a connection and she wants him to return to them but she recognizes that he has feelings for Buffy and taunts him to come clean with her and tell her about the curse. A lot of information is being given without a whole lot of answers at this point.

The gang hanging at the library researching and Giles gives a little more information, inserting the actual dialog because it’s just too good not to

Giles: There's mention some two hundred years ago in Ireland of, of
Angelus, the one with the angelic face.

Buffy: They got that right.

Xander: (clears his throat) I'm not saying anything, I have nothing to
say.

Giles: Does this, uh, Angel have, um, a tattoo behind his right
shoulder?

Buffy: Yeah, it's a, it's a bird or something.

Xander: Now I'm sayin' something. You saw him naked?

Willow: So, Angel's been around for a while.

Giles: Not long for a vampire. Uh, two hundred and forty years or so.

Buffy: Huh! Two hundred and forty. Well, he said he was older.

Giles: (sits and looks through the diary) Angelus leaves Ireland, uh,
wreaks havoc in, in Europe for, uh, several decades, and then, um, about
eighty years ago, the most curious thing happens. He, he comes to, uh,
to America, um, shuns other vampires, and, and lives alone. There's,
there's no, no record of him hunting here.

Willow: So he *is* a good vampire! I mean, on a scale of one to ten,
ten being someone who's killing and maiming every night, and one being
someone who's... not.

Giles: I say that there's no record, but, uh, vampires hunt and kill.
It's, it's what they do.

Xander: Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly.

Buffy: He could've fed on me. He didn't.

Xander: Question: a hundred years or so before he came to our shores,
what was he like then?

Giles: Uh, like all of them. Uh, a vicious, violent animal.



Later, Willow helps Buffy study, Darla has made plans to take Buffy out by using Angel to do it and goes to Buffy’s house to attach her mother, Angel busts in as Darla has fed on Joyce and takes her lifeless body in his arms, the blood lust has caused him to vamp out but he is fighting it as Buffy comes in, seeing the scene and gets the wrong idea. Buffy threatens to kill Angel if he comes near them again and he flees.

Buffy gets her mom checked in to the hospital for a blood transfusion and the gang are all there, Joyce’s reaction to Giles being there is cute and he will be the one to find out it was Darla rather than Angel who attacked Joyce. Buffy won’t learn of this until she is face to face with Angel because she takes off to kill Angel.

At the Bronze, Buffy finds Angel and plans to shoot him with a cross bow but they end up having a conversation instead, Angel explains to Buffy that he has killed a number of people, including his family and then he tells her about the curse, Angel has pretty much asked Buffy to kill him without saying the words and then Buffy does something that I didn’t expect, she lowers her crossbow, walks straight up to him and offers him her neck, showing him that it isn’t as easy as it sounds.

Cue Darla’s entrance, she is vamped out and ugly. She fills in some more gaps in Angel’s history. She made him and they were “together”.

Some of my favorite Buffy quips happen in this sequence
“Darla: Do you know what the saddest thing in the world is?
Buffy: Bad hair on top of that outfit?

Darla shoots Angel and the gang are coming to tell Buffy what she already knows. Angel didn’t attack her mother. Darla comes full on after Buffy and Angel stakes her, killing her. They share a longing look from across the room and Angel walks off alone with Buffy looking on.

Now to the moment that turned me into a diehard Buffy and Angel fan, the moment in which I fell head over heels for this fictional couple.

Cut to the bronze, As Xander and Willow stand beside Buffy, Willow lets Buffy know that Angel is there, Buffy turns and makes her way across the room to where he stands waiting. They briefly discuss why a relationship would never work but end up gazing at each other and coming closer like they did in her bedroom, this time when they kiss there is music playing in the background and it’s a little less heated and more dreamy.

When they pull apart and Buffy walks away we see that Buffy’s cross has burn a deep wound into Angel’s chest and he stand there watching her walk away. THIS was the moment for me. The gotcha. The never going to view tv or movie couples the same. Never going to be satisfied with anything less.



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Irony= see above.
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